Liberals are Anti-American

[Data Holmes]

Yes, it's the Right Wingers who try to redefine Patriotism and American Values. The United States is a Liberal country, founded by Liberal men based on Liberal principles.

Yes, such as limited government, with the states holding most of the power, no direct taxes, Free Market economy, unlimited freedom of the press and religion, that every citizen is a member of the milita and as such has the right to own a gun, and there is no need for a standing army (currently sitting in over 35 foreign nations right now I might add).

Liberals have changed this country just as much as the conservatives, if not more so.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: Liberals are Trout

America itself is changing.

Yeah, so why keep busting into the dressing room? Give it some privacy!

 

[highlander]

Yes, it's the Right Wingers who try to redefine Patriotism and American Values. The United States is a Liberal country, founded by Liberal men based on Liberal principles.

Oh sh*t now you gone and done it!!!

 

[sidious618]

I've been called all sorts of names for my views. It felt really good last night to see a man who represents some of them be elected. I was quite moved actually.

 

[RoJoHen]

While I appreciate the spirit of this thread but if I never had to hear that "U-S-A! U-S-A!" chant ever again I'd be a happy man. I'm not anti-American by any means but that gutteral jingoism just rubs me wrong. Especially during gracious concession speeches.

I was a lot more bothered by the crowd booing Obama during McCain's concession speech. Talk about poor taste.

I'm glad McCain promptly tried to shut them up.

 

[highlander]

While I appreciate the spirit of this thread but if I never had to hear that "U-S-A! U-S-A!" chant ever again I'd be a happy man. I'm not anti-American by any means but that gutteral jingoism just rubs me wrong. Especially during gracious concession speeches.

I was a lot more bothered by the crowd booing Obama during McCain's concession speech. Talk about poor taste.

I'm glad McCain promptly tried to shut them up.

No matter if you agree with his politics or not McCain is a classy individual. His speech was amazing.

 

[RoJoHen]

^Agreed. If he had acted during his campaign the way he acted during his concession speech, he would have stood a much better chance.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Yes, such as limited government, with the states holding most of the power, no direct taxes, Free Market economy, unlimited freedom of the press and religion, that every citizen is a member of the milita and as such has the right to own a gun, and there is no need for a standing army (currently sitting in over 35 foreign nations right now I might add).

Liberals have changed this country just as much as the conservatives, if not more so.

Non the less, compared to 1775 politics, it was sill really progressive. One can pick-out any part of progress at any part of the country's history and, in relative terms, may not seem so now. And there-in lies the problem with the base stance of the "Grand Old Party" and their "real America and real Americans" bullshit.

They imply that to want progress because there is always a better way of doing things is "Anti-American" because one should be proud of one's country is utter nonsense. In order for that logic to be viable one has to accept America as it was at any point in its history because if you don't you'd be "Anti-American" in comparison to those of the respective era. This is a country that's had slavery, segregation, woman unable to vote or own property, internment camps, and nearly eradicated an entire race of people. So, according to this logic, if you were to speak out against any of those during their time, you'd be "Anti-American" too or not a "Real American" or whatever other nonsense they throw out there.

Going back to RJD's point, America is a country that continues to change and "progress.' It's why a call my self a "progressive." I don't generally don't like the term "liberal." What it is defined as by most, and what it really means usually don't match.

 

[Shintaek]

No matter if you agree with his politics or not McCain is a classy individual. His speech was amazing.

That's why I like McCain more than the mainline members and supporters of the Republican Party itself.

I do pity him though for being closer to Bush in policies in 2004.

 

[CaptainStoner]

Patriotism is one of the finest virtues, when it's not subsumed by nationalism.

+1

Further right Republicans are not going to accept this shift. I know it took me a few years after the 2000 election to even refer to Bush as a President. Of course, he won without pop vote, rubbing salt in the wound, recounts were aborted, etc.

But this is a different situation. McCain is going to have a sizeable popularity boost. That was not the case with Gore, except to the Greens. There is a will to unity on the part of the Obama campaign/admin. that was never there with Bush & Co, nor their supporters, who for years considered anti-war to be pro-terrorism. This with us/against us mentality is subsiding.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

McCain is going to have a sizeable popularity boost.

How much good will that do him? Don't get me wrong, I agree with you, but I wonder how it will help.

 

[Augustus]

Who wants to change the constitution, a liberal judge or a conservative one??

 

[RJDiogenes]

Liberals have changed this country just as much as the conservatives, if not more so.

Actually, the problem is that when people say Liberal they really mean the Left Wing, which is about as liberal as the Right Wing (also, your definition of liberal is a bit skewed ).

Yes, it's the Right Wingers who try to redefine Patriotism and American Values. The United States is a Liberal country, founded by Liberal men based on Liberal principles.

Oh sh*t now you gone and done it!!!

That's what I get for reading the complete writings of Thomas Jefferson.

 

[Amaris]

Who wants to change the constitution, a liberal judge or a conservative one??

I don't know, who?

J.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Who wants to change the constitution

Sounds like an interesting game show.

"I choose B, gay marriage, final answer."

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I do not think that liberals are anti-american. But many liberals want to change a lot of things that define what "American" is.

Such as? I could assume of course, using your sig and the general tone of your post as a guide, but I'll allow you to elaborate first.

Well, to give you one example, this whole notion of "equality". All men are created equal, yes, but many libs want all men to BE equal. This is evidenced in a lot of things: affirmative action, welfare, taxes on rich people, willy nilly immigration laws, etc, etc.

And the basis of this being equal, usually is determined by things like race and gender. A man is equal to a woman and a black person is equal to a white person, but "liberal" equality suggests that minorities need extra help to be created equally.

Public assistance programs for people of all backgrounds, group specific job placement programs, taxes, and more open immigration policies are neither something new nor limited to liberal politicians. Your assertion that the opposite of these policies are inherent "American" values is ridiculous.

However, it's not as ridiculous as the notion that taxing the rich and providing public assistance to the poor (of all races) is somehow bringing those two groups remotely close to economic parity. Giving people a leg up when they are in need is not like handing them the keys to a mansion, and taxing the rich is not like sending them to the poorhouse.

None of the things you mentioned are antithetical to American values that have existed as an ideal - if not always in practice - since the founding of this country, and it strikes me as being more than a little bit of the "real America" syndrome that equates people like yourself (general you, not you specifically) as being "true" Americans because they share your personal values.

 

[Augustus]

Who wants to change the constitution

Sounds like an interesting game show.

"I choose B, gay marriage, final answer."

good one.

The point I was trying to make though is that generally speaking conservative judges aren't interested in interpreting the constitution to read anything new.
However liberal judges just can't help themselves from finding new rights and "freedoms" that really don't exist. Like the right of privacy... to name one hot button issue

 

[highlander]

Liberals have changed this country just as much as the conservatives, if not more so.

Actually, the problem is that when people say Liberal they really mean the Left Wing, which is about as liberal as the Right Wing (also, your definition of liberal is a bit skewed ).

Yes, it's the Right Wingers who try to redefine Patriotism and American Values. The United States is a Liberal country, founded by Liberal men based on Liberal principles.

Oh sh*t now you gone and done it!!!

That's what I get for reading the complete writings of Thomas Jefferson.

I saw an interesting interview with Dennis Hopper the other day. He was a Democrat for a long time but switched parties because of Reagan but switched back this election. He mentioned that Jefferson had said that if a party had been in power for more than 20 years it is time for a change. (I think he said 20 years I may have misquoted). I haven't had time to cross check that but it sounded cool.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

However liberal judges just can't help themselves from finding new rights and "freedoms" that really don't exist. Like the right of privacy... to name one hot button issue

If you're obliquely referring back to the California gay marriage issue, those "liberal judges" (the majority of which aren't left wing or liberal at all) didn't have to look far to find those new rights and freedoms. Turns out the Equal Protection Clause was right there under their noses in the state constitution all along! It really is the last place you look.

Hopefully the US Supreme Court will be able to find it in the US Constitution soon when the case likely comes before them. It's kind of like a Where's Waldo? thing.

 

[The Old Mixer]

The Republicans of his time called FDR a socialist. And he's to one who got us through the Great Depression (not to mention WWII).

Now we're facing the greatest financial crisis since the Great Depression. We could use an FDR.