Let's have a Nemesis appreciation thread. You know you want to...

[Captain Clark Terrell]

^I think Hardy's performance would have been stronger had the script for Nemesis been stronger. Some of Shinzon's lines were beyond cringe-worthy.

"Unity, Captain. Tearing down the walls between us to recognize that we are one!"

WTF is that?

--Sran

 

[fireproof78]

I think Hardy has a difficult task of balancing a younger Picard without being Picard, if that makes sense. The idea of a darker mirror is always an interesting aspect, but I agree that the script really holds the concept down. Hardy is a fine actor and I think a stronger script would have supported his talent even more.

I think Ron Pearlman was also underused. I think there could have been an interesting dynamic between him and Hardy rather than the generic bad guy monologues that are given out there. There is so much potential for it, especially if you created a more competitive triangle between Shinzon, Pearlman (don't remember the character's name) and Donatra. Creating a stronger relationship at the beginning and then have them conspiring against each other for power.

SF Debris had another idea that I liked. The idea that Shinzon's own feelings of humanity cause him to delay from moving ahead with the plans.

But, overall, I have no problem with Hardy's performance. Really, just the script.

 

[Smellmet]

Agreed, Tom Hardy is one of the few actors who I'll watch a film because they're in it. He is talented enough to do a good job despite the material he's given. I look forward to his portrayal of Mad Max.

 

[Trek Survivor]

I've always liked Nemesis just fine, and found the OTT fan-hate against it rather humourous.

 

[Kor]

I don't think Stuart Baird's directorial record "stank" so much as there just wasn't enough of it. It seemed like fans were hoping for a big-name director instead of somebody more known as an editor.

Kor

 

[martok2112]

I don't think Stuart Baird's directorial record "stank" so much as there just wasn't enough of it. It seemed like fans were hoping for a big-name director instead of somebody more known as an editor.

Kor

I can agree with this.

 

[enterprisecvn65]

^I think Hardy's performance would have been stronger had the script for Nemesis been stronger. Some of Shinzon's lines were beyond cringe-worthy.

"Unity, Captain. Tearing down the walls between us to recognize that we are one!"

WTF is that?

--Sran

It would have been a great scene though if Shinzon had been wearing a ring that said "UNITY" and then he screamed "Jean-Luc Picard" and punched Picard in his forehead and left a reverse imprint of his ring there.

Then while Picard is dealing with the pain Shinzon goes "That was........cold blooded."

 

[eyeresist]

The buggy sequence and the Reman ship invasion were pretty shit though.

You forgot Shinzon's death scene, too mundane to be properly effective.
The Reman ship invasion and Riker's fight with the Viceroy are IMO the reasons the battle feels too long. Cut them and the whole thing would be tighter and more exciting.

I've defended the buggy chase here before. The argument against it seems to be "It's TNG - it's not supposed to be exciting."
Compared to NuTrek it looks like a knitting contest.

Highlights:
Picard's deep conversations with Shinzon and Data are probably the best part of NEM.
The wedding was really nice too, a great way to reintroduce the characters.
I don't know how controversial this is, but I liked the glistening dark purple-and-green of the Romulan clothes and sets.

I guess you could just say his motivation was that he was a psycho and/or wanted to show everyone what a bad ass he was by wiping out earth. But that's really weak for a character as complex as Shinzon was supposed to be.

I think Shinzon was a complex and very conflicted character. Apart from clone-envy, his main issue was wanting to get back at his oppressors by being "more Romulan than the Romulans". (A little like a certain Austrian corporal.) Both of these are more unusual motivations than the standard ambition or revenge.

 

[enterprisecvn65]

The buggy sequence and the Reman ship invasion were pretty shit though.

You forgot Shinzon's death scene, too mundane to be properly effective.
The Reman ship invasion and Riker's fight with the Viceroy are IMO the reasons the battle feels too long. Cut them and the whole thing would be tighter and more exciting.

I've defended the buggy chase here before. The argument against it seems to be "It's TNG - it's not supposed to be exciting."
Compared to NuTrek it looks like a knitting contest.

Highlights:
Picard's deep conversations with Shinzon and Data are probably the best part of NEM.
The wedding was really nice too, a great way to reintroduce the characters.
I don't know how controversial this is, but I liked the glistening dark purple-and-green of the Romulan clothes and sets.

I guess you could just say his motivation was that he was a psycho and/or wanted to show everyone what a bad ass he was by wiping out earth. But that's really weak for a character as complex as Shinzon was supposed to be.

I think Shinzon was a complex and very conflicted character. Apart from clone-envy, his main issue was wanting to get back at his oppressors by being "more Romulan than the Romulans". (A little like a certain Austrian corporal.) Both of these are more unusual motivations than the standard ambition or revenge.

Assuming we're thinking about the same Austrian Corporal....that's actually a pretty interesting comparison.

The one major difference is Der Furher actually fought in WWI and felt showing Germans how to really be German was to pay back the ones who he felt screwed Germany after the war and plunged it into crisis.

Shinzon never went toe to toe with the Federation but, if he really wanted to show Romulans how to be truly Romulan, then his thought of stopping this passive aggressive strategy they had been using with the Federation for a long time and just going for the knockout blow does make a lot of sense.

Nice comparison.

 

[Ithekro]

Shinzon did fight the Dominion.

 

[Smellmet]

You forgot Shinzon's death scene, too mundane to be properly effective.

I thought it was pretty good to be honest - you've got to be a badass to drag yourself down a spike you've just been impaled on just so you can look your enemy in the eye as you pass away.

 

[Kor]

As a kid in the mines on Remus, he watched a bootleg copy of the LOTR trilogy, and decided that one day he would die that way.

Kor

 

[Smellmet]

That's another thing I like about Nemesis, the brief scenes of Remus, which were nicely done (and reminded me of The Matrix) and the opening sweep down to the Romulan Senate, both nice scenes of alien worlds, something that Insurrection failed to capture.

 

[Greg Cox]

I don't think Stuart Baird's directorial record "stank" so much as there just wasn't enough of it. It seemed like fans were hoping for a big-name director instead of somebody more known as an editor.

Which is odd considering that, aside from Robert Wise, Trek films had never been assigned to big-name directors before. Baird actually had more feature-film experience than Meyer, Nimoy, Shatner, Carson and Frakes did when they first got the gigs.

 

[Kor]

I don't think Stuart Baird's directorial record "stank" so much as there just wasn't enough of it. It seemed like fans were hoping for a big-name director instead of somebody more known as an editor.

Which is odd considering that, aside from Robert Wise, Trek films had never been assigned to big-name directors before. Baird actually had more feature-film experience than Meyer, Nimoy, Shatner, Carson and Frakes did when they first got the gigs.

I can't really remember the details now, but I think certain fans weren't happy with "Trek" being used merely as a vehicle for a film editor (who wasn't really familiar with Trek; he thought Geordi was an alien) to gain more experience as a director, as if the whole thing was just a half-hearted afterthought to Paramount.

Kor

 

[martok2112]

I did like Baird's approach to Trek.

The fight scene between Riker and the Viceroy in the bowels of the Enterprise, the lighting in there was meant as a sort of homage to "Alien".

As far as the story goes, I must be one of the few who had no objection whatsoever to the Argo sequence.

I remember after seeing it with my friends the first time in its very short theatrical run, I loved the hell out of the whole movie, and some of them were "meh". And then one of them telling me, "Dude, you seriously have got to stop defending that movie so much.".

 

[Kor]

I was on an anti-TNG tirade at the time of Nemesis' release, so I never saw it in the theaters. I finally got a used DVD years later, and I thought the whole movie just felt "off" somehow. I think I've only watched it twice.

Ooops, I'm not *appreciating* Nemesis.

I like the fact that Troi and Riker got married.

Kor

 

[Smellmet]

I did like Baird's approach to Trek.

The fight scene between Riker and the Viceroy in the bowels of the Enterprise, the lighting in there was meant as a sort of homage to "Alien".

As far as the story goes, I must be one of the few who had no objection whatsoever to the Argo sequence.

I remember after seeing it with my friends the first time in its very short theatrical run, I loved the hell out of the whole movie, and some of them were "meh". And then one of them telling me, "Dude, you seriously have got to stop defending that movie so much.".

I thought the Riker fight scene was the only bit of the movie I would class as genuinely 'bad' - it just seemed so limp and flat, and - where the hell did this deep pit suddenly appear from? Plus why didn't Picard just turn the fucking lights up?

I know I called the buggy scene 'shit' earlier but that was more of a story thing than anything, I didn't really mind it in isolation. I guess it's easy to diss the scene as it's generally seen as a contentious part of the film which people like to debate, what with the prime directive/what's a buggy doing in the 24th century points, but it was reasonably well executed, and had a couple of humorous moments in it, and (I know I keep banging on about it) still better than most of the stuff found in Insurrection.

 

[xvicente]

I had a trekkie girlfriend between the years ST6 and FC were released; We watched them all together and had fun.
I had no girlfriend at the time INS was in the theaters.
By the time Nemesis came, I had a new gf; I thought it was better not to mention Star Trek. You know, in case NEM sucked as much half as INS so she wouldn't think I was an idiot. I went to see it alone on a rainy Tuesday.

 

[Smellmet]

I had a trekkie girlfriend between the years ST6 and FC were released; We watched them all together and had fun.
I had no girlfriend at the time INS was in the theaters.
By the time Nemesis came, I had a new gf; I thought it was better not to mention Star Trek. You know, in case NEM sucked as much half as INS so she wouldn't think I was an idiot. I went to see it alone on a rainy Tuesday.

I saw Nemesis once at the cinema - pretty much on my own in Barnsley of all places. I loved it.