Spoilers Let’s talk about the destruction of Trek utopia…

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by Anters, Feb 24, 2020.

  1. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    I just don't think everything ever was rainbows and lollipops. That's part of my struggle is that I don't see it being purely good.
     
  2. Longinus

    Longinus Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    A beloved character from a better series? It was Icheb from Voyager, so neither of those apply...
     
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  3. picardjean-luc

    picardjean-luc Captain Captain

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    My thoughts exactly. Picard has dealt with decisions made by 'bad' and sometimes 'evil' Admirals in charge of Starfleet all the time during his tenure as captains of the Stargazer, Enterprise-D, and -E. Yet he continued defending the Federation and its values as any model Starfleet officer would.

    Now that he's retired and his latest adventure is not sanctioned by Starfleet, he's not under any obligation to defend these ideals and values anymore. Maybe he'll teach them privately to young proteges like Elnor and Soji, but he's not under any obligation to promote these ideals as part of his duty...
     
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  4. picardjean-luc

    picardjean-luc Captain Captain

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    Even the Doctor asks to deactivate himself to put him out of misery from Neelix's torture ;):lol::lol:
     
  5. XCV330

    XCV330 Premium Member

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    Spot is going to return genetically augmented with sehlat DNA and lasers in his eyes, hell bent on revenge for reasons only he knows.

    He stops and looks at Riker and says "I have nothing to say to you, Chief. And I think you know why." before passing him walking up to Troi to be petted, murdering Riker's confidence in cold blood.
     
  6. Hythlodeus

    Hythlodeus Commodore Commodore

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    Allright. Icheb was a character, I grant you that, but...beloved?

    Also, VOY a better series?
     
  7. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Mih ssim, mih ssim, nam, daed si Xim. Moderator

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    Only the ones she appeared in.
     
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  8. Hythlodeus

    Hythlodeus Commodore Commodore

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    I like Keiko
     
  9. Succubint

    Succubint Captain Captain

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    I like her, too. I actually really enjoyed the episodes which touched upon married life (its ups and downs) with Keiko and Miles.

    Edited to add: The one where it's from Clone Miles's perspective is really creepy when you consider Keiko's position.
     
  10. urbandk

    urbandk Commodore Commodore

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  11. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    One of the few times that I actually liked seeing relationships in Trek. It was nice to have that longer term, stressors and the ups and downs that come in a relationship.

    That article is wrong!!! Starfleet has never been evil!
     
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  12. ThreeEdgedSword

    ThreeEdgedSword Commander Red Shirt

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    BUT Brophy is in it!!!11!1
     
  13. Aragorn

    Aragorn Admiral Admiral

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    Was Tasha Yar's upbringing part of this Star Trek utopia?
     
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  14. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Nope! That was clearly added after Roddenberry...
     
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  15. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Mih ssim, mih ssim, nam, daed si Xim. Moderator

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    Roddenberry was too busy writing memos about how huge the Ferengi's schlongs should be.
     
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  16. MrPointy

    MrPointy Captain Captain

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    Icheb wasn't on the same level as other recurring characters like TNG O'Brien, Nog or Garak. But I think he was more well regarded than regulars on VOY like Neelix or Harry Kim or Chakotay. Or Mayweather. Or Archer. Icheb was mostly there as a foil for Seven and to enhance her Quest To Discover Her Humanity.
     
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  17. Imaus

    Imaus Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Here's my take on it.

    PIC doesn't destroy the Star Trek 'Utopia' because it's being allegorious for the wrong thing, as in, the entire set up is wrong.

    It's supposed to be a commentary on "xenophobic democracy" as seen in Europe and America since the recession and Arab Spring with a mix of Trump and Farage and co thrown in there, yes?

    But that's the ticker. It literally can't, not with this premise.

    Earth is a veritable paradise gated community. The Romulans are supposed to be refugees and migrants we've seen on the news and maybe even in real life for the last how many years - but it doesn't work. For Americans - Central America and Mesomarerica has been in crisis for forty years, +. For Europeans - the Arab Spring saw a huge reaction and destabilization via mass movements, an ideal, then government crackdowns and civil wars, right? Other migrants came in from elsewhere for economic reasons, dreams of employment or enjoying a richer economy.

    But that's not what happened to Romulus, it was destroyed by an external natural event. That changes a LOT on how you can use it for an aesop.

    Romulans aren't running from a idealistic civil war that has gone nowhere/been hijacked, or a failed state due to proxy wars between Great Powers (as it was one, remember). Romulans can't even be demonized as job takers, demographic shifters, or even promoting a different culture in the Federation, compared to our real-world counterparts that are accused of out-breeding locals or promoting Islam/Catholicism or whatever the ever illusive 'Globalists' or 'Soros' or 'NGOs' did?

    I don't know if there's even a good proxy for what the Romulans are - maybe if the Three Gorges Dam collapsed in China?

    And, of course, no Trump or Farage has appeared, nor could they, at least not in the "core". The Federation Council isn't going to be shown as partisan to the point of near non-functionality as seen in the UK or USA, or with minute minority interests, from UKIP to the Tea Party and their Koch and corporate backers. Nor can the President be a Trump or a Farage - what, is Earth going to secede? I think Andor wanted to, but Andor isn't the focus here.

    Not without extremely contrived writing.

    Well, maybe it could. IF Picard dealt solely with the border zone with a new or ascending Federation member or colony. A lot of this would be believable "out there". Synths to help with a rush job? Believable, right? Not a lot of people on this world, hey, but demand for products (in this case, ships) is high...spam out some bots. Romulan refugees being a problem? Hell yea, the NZ is right there now. Pirates, scum, black marketers, intelligence agents? Yep. Jingoistic, reactionary leaders? Of course. But on the affected frontier. Not just using the Frontier as a backdrop, but living in it, staying there, being focused on a smaller picture than PIC is gearing up to. (FASA basically had this with "the triangle" and Star Trek sort of delved into this with Bajor and the Marquis, so this should be more along that vein for this paragraph to work).

    If the show took place on a veritable hive, buzzing and agitated, it would be much more believable. Corrupt Starfleet, half-assed or burnt out police, maybe even a actually 21st century capitalistic economy still in motion, that stuff.

    But the thing is, Picard is focused on getting a crew, zipping around space in a cool sleek spaceship, solving a mystery around these girls, people being suspicious of each other, plots on plots, the frontier again. It's a Firefly thing, and that's not the vehicle to bemoan the state of the West in the last ten years, is it?
     
  18. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You know what I'd like to see touched on? An aspect that may have contributed to the Feds being a state on the verge of cracking apart.....the end of the Dominion War. As far as I can tell....there were no war trials. Or anything of the sort. Maybe some kind of sham symbolic trial of the ONE CHANGELING. But that's it.

    Speculation: The Feds were SO DESPERATE to end the war they forego any kind of recompense or justice for the millions of people killed or displaced. Even the Breen were made to just offer a token tribute and that's it.

    "Sorry. No harm no foul. OH WERE GONNA BUILD A BIG FLEET AND SAVE ROMULUS THATS OKAY RIGHT????"

    No its not okay. How about taking care of your loyal citizens first.
     
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  19. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    All well said. Exactly. The conceit of PICARD is some calamatious event after the worst war in history caused the FEDS to turn their backs on their ideals (a fairy tale only seen through the eyes of the Captain of the USO flagship) and this is supposed to be analagous to the US and UK???

    There HASNT been any sort of calamatious event to push the US and UK in this supposed direction Stewart rails about.

    Maybe kinda sorta 9/11??? But where was SIR PATRICK STEWART in the years after?? No its only until the rise of The Great Satan Trump that *suddenly* Stewart thinks we've turned our backs on our ideals.
     
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  20. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    Trek was never a utopia. It was never portrayed as one in any of the series. Much of the time various captains were smacked down by events when they made announcements of having a better way. Super beings like The Q, the Organians, the Prophets, or events like the Xindi attack or the Klingon war in Disco keep underscoring our heroes and the Federation are anything but a Utopia and attempts to rest on the laurels of success are quickly shattered. Picard is just one more iteration of 'don't get above yourselves.'
     
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