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Spoilers Let’s talk about the destruction of Trek utopia…

Spock and Valeris in TUC
Voq in DSC
Lorca in DSC, multiple times (might have the record for being tortured the most times, certainly has a record for being killed the most times: brightness torture by L'rell, a choose your pain beating by Klingon Guards, and multiple times in the agonizer).
Soval tortured by everyone's buddy Shran
Chekhov, bug in ear
Terrell, bug in ear
Kelvinverse Pike, bug in mouth
everyone on USS Voyager: living with Neelix for years

there's a lot of torture in this show, I never noticed really.
 
Pike wasn't physically tortured by Talosians in the Cage/Menagerie but the fire and other unpleasantness seemed to be real enough to him in his mind.
Worf: forced to repeatedly fight by the Dominion
Archer: beaten by the Xindi to get him to talk. (fools.. Archer never stops talking! It reminds me of this trip I took one time to East Africa. I saw a gazelle giving birth..)
O'Brien: systematically maltreated and starved for 20 years in a virtual prison as punishment for espionage

where.. the more you dig the more you find. this is a really torturey show
 
Did see this on the 'Torture' episode list:
TOS S3 "The Cloud Minders"
http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/74.htm

KIRK: Mister Advisor!

(The rays are switched off, and Vanna slumps)

KIRK: You said you were going to question Vanna, not torture her.

PLASUS: She's stubborn, and as you yourself pointed out, Captain, the search for your zenite consignment must be short.

KIRK: Surely there are better methods than this.

PLASUS: Physical discomfort is extremely persuasive, Captain.

KIRK: Yes, but I won't stand by while someone is tortured!

PLASUS: Is it preferable to spare Vanna and allow an entire planet to be destroyed?

SPOCK: Violence in reality is quite different from theory, is it not, madam?

DROXINE: But what else can they understand, Mister Spock?

SPOCK: All the little things you and I understand and expect from life, such as equality, kindness, justice.

PLASUS: Troglytes are not like Stratos dwellers, Mister Spock. They're a conglomerate of inferior species. The abstract concepts
of an intellectual society are beyond their comprehension.

KIRK: The abstract concepts of loyalty and leadership seem clear to Vanna.

PLASUS: A few Troglytes are brought here as retainers. Vanna was one of them, as are the sentinels. They've received more training than the others.

KIRK: But obviously no more consideration.

PLASUS: I fail to see the purpose of this continued criticism.

KIRK: The only way you'll use that device again is on one of us.

PLASUS: An imposing display of primitive gallantry, gentlemen. You realize, of course, that the sentinels could remove you.

KIRK: Of course, but Starfleet command won't take kindly to having either rays or physical force used against one of its command personnel, Mister Advisor.

PLASUS: Why are you so concerned with this Disrupter's well-being?

KIRK: Beyond plain humanitarianism, my orders are to get that zenite.

PLASUS: Then stop interfering, and I'll get it for you.

KIRK: You won't get it through torture.

PLASUS: We will get it for you, and in our own way. Remove the prisoner to confinement quarters. You will return to your ship at once or I shall contact your Starfleet command myself and report your interference with this planet's government.

KIRK: Kirk to Enterprise.

SCOTT [OC]: Enterprise, Captain.

KIRK: Mister Scott, we're ready to beam up.

SCOTT [OC]: Aye, sir.
(Kirk and Spock are beamed away)

PLASUS: (to sentinel) If Captain Kirk appears again, kill him.
 
I don't like it!
I don't like it at all! :mad:

I'm referring to how Icheb was killed of in "Picard".

Honestly, this is what I feared would happen. A typical case of itchy-fingered producers who just have to destroy and kill off beloved characters from previous (and better) series.

Not to mention that it had to be in a scene with sadistic and bestialic torture, so typical for this sh***y, sick decade. (Oh sorry, it's a new decade now but obviously the same doom-and-gloom crap we had to stand in the previous decade).

I never cared that much about Icheb as a character but I find this treatment of him downright disgusting and insulting.

So what will be next? Janeway being gang-raped and tortrured before killed off? Tuvok being slowly cut to pieces in a blood-soaked slow-motion scene? Beverly Crusher being burned alive in another slow-motion scene? Paris getting his head cut off by a "Klingon" Ninja Turtle?

Come on producers! Who's next? Can we make bets on which StarTrek character who will be destroyed next?
:barf:

It's ironic actually. I've been waiting so long for a 24th century series which I hoped would be better than the recent NuTrek movies and the horrible "Discovery".I've should have known better but I didn't think of the fact that we are living in the dark ages now with lousy doom-and gloom "entertainment".

For me it feels like Star Trek has reached its final station. Fortunately, the old series are still available on DVD and I will stick to them in the future.
 
a LOT of DS9 episodes were "Let's torture O'Brien" episodes. there were at least two or three each season
Don't even get me started on Whispers... that episode is basically pure Social Anxiety distilled into a Star Trek episode with the replicant O'Brien not having a clue why everybody's so cold and distant towards him and how he constantly feels watched, his computer is broken into, etc... I shudder at the thought of ever having to rewatch it.
 
Well, I agree with others that say.. Its an optomistic future, one that has all disesease, famine, war etc. taken care of, have replicators so no one is in need.. That in a way is Utopia.. but Utopia is a personal definition.. Being retired sitting at home doinging nothing may be a utopia to somebody, but mind numbingly boring to me.. and go stir crazy after a week.

Its the "Mind set" of the people as a whole.. in the 50's to the 80's people were in general optomistic, and this reflected in star trek series. were optomistic about humanity and the future. now post 9'11 and everybody all down trodden and being a victim mentality.. they think of the future as grim and dark.
But even in an optomistic future, there will still be slavery, seedy underground, poverty.. It might be minimized or even gone on Earth, but on other planets, or colony's .. Humans will sadly be humans.
 
Its the "Mind set" of the people as a whole.. in the 50's to the 80's people were in general optomistic, and this reflected in star trek series. were optomistic about humanity and the future. now post 9'11 and everybody all down trodden and being a victim mentality.. they think of the future as grim and dark..

You may be overstating how optimistic people were back in the old days. Every generation thinks that previous eras were happier than today, but in fact, those eras also thought that the world was going to hell in a hand basket.

And when it comes to science fiction, TREK was unusual in its day because it purported that there would be a bright and shiny future. Most SF shows and movies of the era were of a paranoid bent, full of alien invasions, post-atomic wastelands, soulless computer overlords, etc. See INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS, THE TWILIGHT ZONE, THE OUTER LIMITS, THE INVADERS, LAND OF THE GIANTS, PLANET OF THE APES, SOYLENT GREEN, FAHRENHEIT 451, DR. STRANGELOVE, THE OMEGA MAN, LOGAN'S RUN, MAD MAX, ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK, THE TERMINATOR, THE X-FILES, etc.

Dystopia were the norm, not the exception, long before 9/11. And even STAR TREK, back in the 1960s, acknowledged the Cold War paranoia of the time. Remember Roberta Lincoln talking about her generation was rebelling because they didn't know whether there was going to be a future, what with the Bomb and all?

Post-War America was not all sunshine and optimism. It was also backyard bomb shelters, the Cuban Missile Crisis, McCarthyism, Viet Nam, race riots, political assassinations, and the constant shadow of thermonuclear war. Heck, for a while there, pretty much every movie set in the "near-future" of the 1990s assumed the nineties were going to be a dark ages of barbarism and destruction. (Hi, Eugenic Wars.)
 
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they think of the future as grim and dark.
Which is funny because there is evidence of the poverty rate going down and standard of living improving.

One wouldn't know it from the news but life is actually improving in places.
You may be overstating how optimistic people were back in the old days. Every generation thinks that previous eras were happier than today, but in fact, those eras also thought that the world was going to hell in a hand basket.

And when it comes to science fiction, TREK was unusual in its day because it purported that there would be a bright and shiny future. Most SF shows and movies of the era were of a paranoid bent, full of alien invasions, post-atomic wastelands, soulless computers, etc. See INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS, THE TWILIGHT ZONE, THE OUTER LIMITS, THE INVADERS, LAND OF THE GIANTS, PLANET OF THE APES, SOYLENT GREEN, FAHRENHEIT 451, DR. STRANGELOVE, THE OMEGA MAN, LOGAN'S RUN, MAD MAX, ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK, THE TERMINATOR, THE X-FILES, etc.

Dystopia were the norm, not the exception, long before 9/11. And even STAR TREK, back in the 1960s, acknowledged the Cold War paranoia of the time. Remember Roberta Lincoln talking about her generation was rebelling because they didn't know whether there was going to be a future, what with the Bomb and all?

Post-War America was not all sunshine and optimism. It was also backyard bomb shelters, the Cuban Missile Crisis, McCarthyism, Viet Nam, race riots, political assassinations, and the constant shadow of thermonuclear war. Heck, for a while there, pretty much every movie set in the "near-future" of the 1990s assumed the nineties were going to be a dark ages of barbarism and destruction. (Hi, Eugenic Wars.)
And the best part about TOS was the fact that the optimism was that humanity survived the nihilism and was willing to work together-that's it. Disease was not eliminated, bigotry was still present in some places, etc.

Despite the constant drum beat of depressing news there has been human improvement since TOS aired.
 
@Greg Cox
All true, Forbin Project, Logans run where anybody over 18 was killed, Soylent green being people..
And also true, Star Trek was one of a few that shown that humanity would get past all this crap and be a shining "Planet" in the universe to look up to..
Just seems that Star Trek has takin a not a hard left turn to grim dark, but showing everything isn't rainbows and lolipops in the future.
 
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