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Spoilers Legend of the Sea Devils grade and discussion thread

How do you rate Legend of the Sea Devils?

  • Total voters
    42
7-day audience number was 3.47 million. Still the lowest-rated New Who episode ever, but it avoided being the lowest-rated in the show’s 60-year history (that would be part one of Battlefield with 3.1 million, though audience fragmentation in the intervening 30+ years means that 3.1 million would be a much less dire number today than it was back then).
 
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So I watched again, and it is better second time through, easier to follow what's going on.

Madam Ching wanted the Keystone to use as treasure to buy her kidnapped crew back. She knew the statue of the Sea Devil had a clue to its whereabouts, so she came there and accidentally set the Sea Devil free. That same Sea Devil had been after the Keystone centuries before to use in its own plans, knew Ji-Hun had it, but Ji-Hun sent it away with his first mate. After putting Ji-Hun in suspended animation, the Sea Devil went after the first mate, but was defeated by an army and trapped in stone by the power of the Keystone. Now that he's released, he summons his Sea Devil crew who have been on board Ji-Hun's old ship working on his plan to mess up the Earth while they waited for him, and they go after the Keystone again. The Sea Devil gets it, but then it's lost when the Doctor implodes all the Sea Devil tech, so Ji-Hun gives Madam Ching some of his old treasure from his own ship to use to buy back her crew instead. Then Ji-Hun sacrifices himself to stop the Sea Devil because he should have died centuries ago anyway, and they all live lesbianly ever after.

There, that's the plot. I just think the writer or the director or both didn't do a very good job of making it clear what the actual plot was. A lot of the explanations rush by in quickly tossed off exposition rather than being made a part of that plot - but at least most of them are actually there, it just takes already having watched it once to pull them out. That shouldn't be necessary, of course, you should be able to understand what's going on on first watch, but I attribute that to the rush job of production.

I think my favourite part of the episode is just Mandip Gill's face acting. She does an amazing job of expressing everything she's feeling about the Doctor with very little help from the dialogue. While the Doctor rabbits on at top speed to avoid anything personal, you can see Yaz's disappointment followed by the long-practiced determination to forge on anyway, that smile plastered on over the pain. But it's done subtly and tastefully, not cartoonishly, and that's nice.

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Brendan Moody said:
7-day audience number was 3.47 million. Still the lowest-rated New Who episode ever, but it avoided being the lowest-rated in the show’s 60-year history (that would be part one of Battlefield with 3.1 million, though audience fragmentation in the intervening 30+ years means that 3.1 million would be a much less dire number today than it was back then).
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I really think the show would of been better off doing a special in 2023 for the 60th then going on a long break for a couple of years.
 
DS9Continuing said:
So I watched again, and it is better second time through, easier to follow what's going on.

Madam Ching wanted the Keystone to use as treasure to buy her kidnapped crew back. She knew the statue of the Sea Devil had a clue to its whereabouts, so she came there and accidentally set the Sea Devil free. That same Sea Devil had been after the Keystone centuries before to use in its own plans, knew Ji-Hun had it, but Ji-Hun sent it away with his first mate. After putting Ji-Hun in suspended animation, the Sea Devil went after the first mate, but was defeated by an army and trapped in stone by the power of the Keystone. Now that he's released, he summons his Sea Devil crew who have been on board Ji-Hun's old ship working on his plan to mess up the Earth while they waited for him, and they go after the Keystone again. The Sea Devil gets it, but then it's lost when the Doctor implodes all the Sea Devil tech, so Ji-Hun gives Madam Ching some of his old treasure from his own ship to use to buy back her crew instead. Then Ji-Hun sacrifices himself to stop the Sea Devil because he should have died centuries ago anyway, and they all live lesbianly ever after.

There, that's the plot. I just think the writer or the director or both didn't do a very good job of making it clear what the actual plot was.
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I didn't have any problems with following any of that the first time around. :shrug:

My issues with the episode include that it wasn't that interesting of a story for a Special, the basic science was very wonky, and Ching was severely underutilized.
 
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Starkers said:
A lot of S1 Torchwood scripts felt rough and ready, like they needed another draft or two. I don't know if there's any truth in this but to me it felt rushed.

The big shift in S2 was that Torchwood stopped being pretentiously up it's own butt and stopped taking itself so seriously. From the moment that old lady shouts "Bloody Torchwood" in episode 1 it's clear you're not quite watching the same show. I don't know that S2 episodes were any better but the show was more enjoyable.
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Well, the original producer did quit, so something off was happening behind the scenes.
 
Steve Roby said:
Except that I like what he did with Doctor Who, aside from the time the pandemic kicked in and made things a lot more difficult, which affected a lot more shows than Doctor Who.
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Could not disagree more. And he was doing bad before the pandemic.
 
I agree with this guy. Worth a watch.

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White guys ranting on YouTube are never worth anyone's time. Plus they fill up your feed with more of the same.

Seriously, I accidentally watched two minutes of what turned out to be one of those Comicgate idiots once and for a week I'd have to sweep through and block a load of channels every time I opened YouTube up.
 
I spend time watching Critical Drinker, because I find it interesting seeing where I agree with him, where I don’t, and watching him interact with other YouTubers who I don’t necessarily think *he* even agrees with a lot of the time — in fact sometimes I don’t think he wholly agrees with the things he is saying himself — but it’s an odd exercise in social interaction. It’s a bit like the pub landlord/al Murray, and in both cases these are people who do know their stuff.
 
I enjoyed this episode, especially seeing Sea Devils for the first time since Davidson(!). I agree the Pirate Queen was underutilized and the editing was... rushed, at best. But I still had fun.

Qonundrum said:
JNT era's "Black Orchid" is a flop, let's face it)
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Agree to disagree here. I have a soft spot for that one: a friend who's no longer with us tried to teach me the Charleston after it. :)

DS9Continuing said:
I think my favourite part of the episode is just Mandip Gill's face acting. She does an amazing job of expressing everything she's feeling about the Doctor with very little help from the dialogue. While the Doctor rabbits on at top speed to avoid anything personal, you can see Yaz's disappointment followed by the long-practiced determination to forge on anyway, that smile plastered on over the pain. But it's done subtly and tastefully, not cartoonishly, and that's nice.
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Yes! I feel bad the writing hasn't been up to her acting. She and her character deserved better.

jaime said:
Critical Drinker
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I have to admit that's a great name!

As for the trailer, I didn't even recognize Tegan. Which bothered me, as I saw all those episodes back in the 80s. :sigh:
 
Brendan Moody said:
...though audience fragmentation in the intervening 30+ years means that 3.1 million would be a much less dire number today than it was back then).
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Is that due to cable television, carnivals or water parks?
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David cgc said:
My personal version of "This meeting could've been an email" is, "This YouTube video could've been a blog post."
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Or even better, a Tweet.

Finally going to get around to watching this episode this afternoon!

StCoop said:
Did anyone else get the impression that there were a bunch of scenes that didn't get shot due to COVID issues, the shortened production schedule or both? There were a few times where we get a fade to black and back in again after which the story has jumped forward a bit with the connecting scenes you'd expect absent.
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There were numerous really weird dropouts. Like the kind of thing you'd get in a show for ad-breaks usually. It made the whole viewing experience really choppy... Sometimes the story hadn't even jumped forward... just same place, music continuing after a brief break... Really strange

Anyway, I thought it was... alright. Just alright. Ticking off time as I have been for the last few years really. I really feel sorry for Jodie who is doing the best she can with the material.

Sea Devils, the penultimate adventure for this Doctor, 19th century pirates and a great big aquatic beastie...

It shouldn't be boring should it? But it was a bit. That's about the worst thing that Doctor Who can be.

It felt really oddly edited and then it just ended... Is it right that this was salvaged from leftover bits of Flux with new scenes written in and filmed or is that just speculation?
 
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