If most of you have seen my other thread, I've been immersed in DS9 Season 6 and 7. There was a topic on Dukat so now I have to raise discussion about Damar! In Season 6 I didn't like him much. He struck me as a typical arrogant, drunk, slimy Cardassian. But as the story moved into Season 7, Damar really impressed me, even more than Dukat did as a villain. Hell, I'm kind of contemplating if he was supposed to be a villain or a good guy. You could see after he took command of Cardassia in the middle of Season 6 that he would inevitably lead the Rebellion against the Dominion. But what impressed me the most was when he patched up things with Kira and finally became the leader that Dukat thought he could be. He is no doubt remembered as a hero on Cardassia, but how does Star Trek remember him?
Legate Damar
- Thread starter Sisko4Life
- Start date
I think the interesting part to contemplate was, how much of the boorish behavior earlier on was the kanar talking, and how much of that was really him--because boy, once he sobered up, it was like he became a whole other person overnight, right down to actually saying THANK YOU to Kira for all that she was doing.
Sisko4Life, et al.,
You know, I think DSN had some of the richest, most complex characters of all the ST series. Many evolved in different ways than we expected. I like how it was Nog, and not Jake, who wound up as a gung-ho Starfleet cadet then young officer, rather than the expected arc of Jake following in his father's footsteps.
I mention that development in particular, although a bit off-topic, only to underscore how Damar's character arc was so unexpected yet so brilliant. Here you had a character you really hated, yet I suspect many wound up rooting for Damar, and even mourning his passing, as he changed from villain to unexpected hero, even to the point of embracing Kira as a valued ally. And Casey Biggs had a good sense of humor. and portrayed Damar's angst at turning on the Dominion and leading the Cardassian rebellion against his former allies, people he grew to despise, esp. the smarmy Weyoun, another great character.
Hope we get to see Casey Biggs soon in some other ST project, or anyplace, for that matter! And he also has good taste in women -- he and Roxann Biggs Dawson/B'Elanna Torres were once married, now divorced.
Red Ranger
You know, I think DSN had some of the richest, most complex characters of all the ST series. Many evolved in different ways than we expected. I like how it was Nog, and not Jake, who wound up as a gung-ho Starfleet cadet then young officer, rather than the expected arc of Jake following in his father's footsteps.
I mention that development in particular, although a bit off-topic, only to underscore how Damar's character arc was so unexpected yet so brilliant. Here you had a character you really hated, yet I suspect many wound up rooting for Damar, and even mourning his passing, as he changed from villain to unexpected hero, even to the point of embracing Kira as a valued ally. And Casey Biggs had a good sense of humor. and portrayed Damar's angst at turning on the Dominion and leading the Cardassian rebellion against his former allies, people he grew to despise, esp. the smarmy Weyoun, another great character.
Hope we get to see Casey Biggs soon in some other ST project, or anyplace, for that matter! And he also has good taste in women -- he and Roxann Biggs Dawson/B'Elanna Torres were once married, now divorced.
Red Ranger
I started empathizing with and rooting for Damar as soon as he began to be oppressed and insulted by Weyoun and the Founder. I started to actually like him when he laughed at Worf's snapping Weyoun's neck, and I agree that by the end of the series he was indeed a hero, if a slightly deluded and narrow-minded one... too jingoistic and patriotic. If Cardassia had been strong and free I'm sure I'd still have seen him as a villian for his patriotism, but as a victim I started to really feel for him.
You're right though... in universe, it's questionable whether he'd be remembered as a hero who finally made the right alliance or merely as an opportunist who switched sides when he realized his people were getting screwed over by the Dominion.
It would have been nice to see the war go on long enough for the Dominion to start to screw over the Breen the way they did the Cardies. It makes me wonder why they remained so loyal to the Vorta and the Jem Hadar... perhaps because both were "created" races rather than conquered ones.
You're right though... in universe, it's questionable whether he'd be remembered as a hero who finally made the right alliance or merely as an opportunist who switched sides when he realized his people were getting screwed over by the Dominion.
It would have been nice to see the war go on long enough for the Dominion to start to screw over the Breen the way they did the Cardies. It makes me wonder why they remained so loyal to the Vorta and the Jem Hadar... perhaps because both were "created" races rather than conquered ones.
The kanar didn't kill Ziyal. Nope, there was definite character development.
Well ya have to have someone to implement your orders...
As far as I'm concerned, the Federation would have lost the war against the Dominion if it wasn't for Damar.
Thats debateable. You can say the Federation would have lost the war if it wasn't for the Prophets, Garak killing Vreenak, Section 31's genocidal attempt on the founders, etc. They beat the odds in so many ways. Really, the war would have been over once the minefield was done because 2800 Dominion ships were going to massacre the Federation's puny fleet of 600. And that was just the first wave of reinforcements...
Damar's biggest contribution to ending the war in the Fed's favor was capturing the energy damping weapon. Something a Starfleet special ops team could have done just as well, I suspect.
Provoking the Dominion into destroying Lakarian City most likely also helped push the Cardassian fleet into switching sides, but I wouldn't say that was intentional on Damar's part.....
In retrospect, I wish he hadn't killed Ziyal. Killing her was necessary to drive Dukat down the path he took (for better or for worse), but it also meant that, narratively speaking, Damar couldn't be allowed to survive that final battle. And I'd be *very* curious to see what the Relaunch stories would have been like with Damar in the mix.
Perhaps, but it would probably be weeks or months later. The Federation didn't have that sort of time.
Damar was good for the Feds, but ironically enough, he screwed over the Cardies. If he'd only been patient, the Doms would have won and Cardassia would be a junior partner in a victorious alliance instead of a smoking ruin.
MeanJoePhaser
Admiral
Ziyal was, in Damar's mind, a traitor for what she did. Honestly, how would Kira have delt with a Bajoran collaborator during her resistance days?
Remember NECESSARY EVIL, Kira was as much a murderer as Damar.
Uh, no, Cardassians were being slaughtered left and right for the Dominion, was it half a million at one go at one point? and they were just a diversion. There was no partnership of any kind. Cardassians were dirt to the Dominion, who were giving away territory of theirs to the Breen. Cardassia was just considered a platform to launch attacks from. Imagine being conquered and then willingly fighting for your conquerors like sheep...
I didn't really think of it that way... but I suppose a Founder never forgets and never forgives.
I liked Damar's character from the moment he got into an eyeball to eyeball confrontation with Weyoun in one of the Occupation Arc eps. I think it was Time to Stand. aside from the actor being great, the character was well-written with a clearly recognizable arc which wasn't -- thankfully, and unlike Dukat's -- messed up to serve a plot purpose.
Yeah, and apparently the Cardassians knew this during the occupation arc, and planned on destroy / poisoning the Ketracel White when the war was over.
The Cardassians were only slaughtered prematurely because of the civilian rebellion. The Dominion were favoring the Breen because they see the bigger picture. The Cardies were there for territory, the breen were there for weapons. They were going to exterminate both races once they had the AQ.
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