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Legal Loophole to Get Through DUI Checkpoints

Would you be talking about the 4th Ammendment?

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized

If that being the case what is unreasonable about being subject to a test to see if you aren't under the influence? Surely the Police also have a duty to protect the public.
 
Would you be talking about the 4th Ammendment?

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized

If that being the case what is unreasonable about being subject to a test to see if you aren't under the influence?

Because it presumes guilt of people who are guilty of nothing but driving. There is no probable cause under these circumstances.

Surely the Police also have a duty to protect the public.
Yes. Legally...
 
^ I'm not a fan of cost-benefit analyses where you get fewer rights for "more serious" crimes because it's more reasonable under the circumstances. Back in the 1970s, there were Justices on the Supreme Court who thought that drug crimes were just that important, so they should be able to search people for drugs with fewer facts supporting it. Now we reject that idea, but who knows what ideas we have that others might reject?

Instead, reasonable searches are usually justified by things like what evidence they have to support a belief that a person is committing a crime or evidence of a crime would be found.

But I do think anyone can make a mistake and not realize they're above that legal limit, which is why ideas like this exist.

There is an easy way to avoid any such mistake, don't drink if you plan to drive. In theory you could still be over the morning after.

The rough guide is it takes 1 hour for for your body to clear 1 unit of alcohol, of course Age/Weight/gender etc.. all play a part so as I said it's only a guideline figure.

Oh, I agree completely that it's the best route. Also, if you're in a place with public transportation, you should always plan on public transportation. Unfortunately, there is no good public transportation in most places in this country.
 
^ I'm not a fan of cost-benefit analyses where you get fewer rights for "more serious" crimes because it's more reasonable under the circumstances. Back in the 1970s, there were Justices on the Supreme Court who thought that drug crimes were just that important, so they should be able to search people for drugs with fewer facts supporting it. Now we reject that idea, but who knows what ideas we have that others might reject?

Instead, reasonable searches are usually justified by things like what evidence they have to support a belief that a person is committing a crime or evidence of a crime would be found.

But I do think anyone can make a mistake and not realize they're above that legal limit, which is why ideas like this exist.

There is an easy way to avoid any such mistake, don't drink if you plan to drive. In theory you could still be over the morning after.

The rough guide is it takes 1 hour for for your body to clear 1 unit of alcohol, of course Age/Weight/gender etc.. all play a part so as I said it's only a guideline figure.

Oh, I agree completely that it's the best route. Also, if you're in a place with public transportation, you should always plan on public transportation. Unfortunately, there is no good public transportation in most places in this country.

The lack of public transportation in certain areas is not unique to the USA.
 
It's my belief the only loophole to get through a DUI checkpoint is to not drink and drive. If you're not driving you can't be arrested for driving under the influence however they could still get you for public intoxication.
 
It's my belief the only loophole to get through a DUI checkpoint is to not drink and drive. If you're not driving you can't be arrested for driving under the influence however they could still get you for public intoxication.

According to the attorney who created the flyer, that is not true. He cited an example of a man who passed the breathalyzer but failed other field tests (at the descretion of law enforcement) and was consequently cited for DUI.
 
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If you're not driving you can't be arrested for driving under the influence

According to the attorney who created the flyer, that is not true. He cited an example of a man who passed the breathalyzer but failed other field tests (at the descretion of law enforcement) and was consequently cited for DUI.

DUI = Driving under the Influence. So as Fozob1 says if you aren't driving how can you be done for a DUI offence?
 
The problem I see with that sign is if you hold it up, you're immediately telling the officer this is going to be a confrontation instead of a peaceful stop, and he's going treat you like a potentially hostile suspect.

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to agree with this. Relations between the police and the public are at an all-time low, and tactics like this are probably not going to make things much better. We all wish the situation was different, of course, but we still have to approach things like this realistically.

I'm not saying the police are always right, of course. There are times when they have acted terribly wrong. But like I said, the Supreme Court has ruled that sobriety checkpoints are (when properly applied, which admittedly does not always occur) legal and allowable. So if you are in a state where such checkpoints ARE allowed, and you are stopped, then...well, why not just blow into the damn tube and be done with it?

@Gaseous: Apparently in other jurisdictions, you can be cited for a DUI-like offense even if you are not actually driving. In the UK, for example, it's a criminal offense to be "drunk in charge" of a vehicle. This does not always mean actually DRIVING it. If you have recently driven, or are able to quickly start the car and drive off, you can still be cited if you're drunk - even if you're not actually driving at the time. Linky
 
The problem I see with that sign is if you hold it up, you're immediately telling the officer this is going to be a confrontation instead of a peaceful stop, and he's going treat you like a potentially hostile suspect.

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to agree with this. Relations between the police and the public are at an all-time low, and tactics like this are probably not going to make things much better. We all wish the situation was different, of course, but we still have to approach things like this realistically.

I'm not saying the police are always right, of course. There are times when they have acted terribly wrong. But like I said, the Supreme Court has ruled that sobriety checkpoints are (when properly applied, which admittedly does not always occur) legal and allowable. So if you are in a state where such checkpoints ARE allowed, and you are stopped, then...well, why not just blow into the damn tube and be done with it?

@Gaseous: Apparently in other jurisdictions, you can be cited for a DUI-like offense even if you are not actually driving. In the UK, for example, it's a criminal offense to be "drunk in charge" of a vehicle. This does not always mean actually DRIVING it. If you have recently driven, or are able to quickly start the car and drive off, you can still be cited if you're drunk - even if you're not actually driving at the time. Linky

You could also add in if you are supervising a Learner drive and are intoxicated you would likely be charged with Drunk Whilst in Charge.

Of course the Police still have to prove that you had recently driven a vehicle to charge you with that offense. I.e via an Intoximeter, the road side breath test as far as I am aware is not admissable in court. As well as CCTV/witness/video recording.


But I suspect most people in the UK and in many other places accept the need for random breath tests, after all if you haven't done anything wrong you'll be quickly on the way. And the feeling most will have if someone gets caught they deserve everything they get, they risked not only their life but the life of others, and better to catch them before they cause an accident.
 
In the United States, the police are allowed to briefly stop everyone for a checkpoint and get their license. However, they aren't allowed to force you to submit to a breath test, to my knowledge.

The Supreme Court has ruled (in Michigan Department of State Police v. Sitz) that sobriety checkpoints are legal and constitutional. Some states have still outlawed them, though.

Yeah, and at those checkpoints, they're allowed to briefly stop everyone and get their license information. However, they aren't allowed to force you to submit to a breath test, to my knowledge.

In the checkpoint in Sitz, only drivers that exhibited signs of intoxication would be detoured to a stopping place where they were instructed to perform SFSTs. The rest were sent along their way. In fact, it seems that checkpoint didn't even ask for licenses for drivers who didn't show signs of intoxication. However, under Delaware v. Prouse, it's probably permissible.
 
If you're not driving you can't be arrested for driving under the influence

According to the attorney who created the flyer, that is not true. He cited an example of a man who passed the breathalyzer but failed other field tests (at the descretion of law enforcement) and was consequently cited for DUI.

DUI = Driving under the Influence. So as Fozob1 says if you aren't driving how can you be done for a DUI offence?

If you are in a sobriety check point line, you obviously drove to get there. I was countering his point that not being intoxicated is certain to absolve you from charges.

Also, in the commonwealth of Virginia for example, if you are behind the wheel of your parked vehicle but you are in possession of your car keys, you can be charged with DUI even if you have not yet started the vehicle. That is why sometimes you might see Americans drop their car keys beside their vehicle when they are pulled over or otherwise approached by law enforcement.
 
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Yeah, and at those checkpoints, they're allowed to briefly stop everyone and get their license information. However, they aren't allowed to force you to submit to a breath test, to my knowledge.

If you refuse to use a breathalyzer at the request of law enforcement, the state can suspend your driver's license.
 
Has anyone seen this before? I just used it in Virginia, and it worked like a charm.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fair-dui-flyers-help-pass-through-drunk-driving-checkpoints/

I've never been through a DUI checkpoint so I cannot speak to how much of an inconvenience they may be. But is it really that much of a big deal to simply roll-down your window, show your license, let the officer make a cursory look-over of you, and then move-on? There's no need to be an asshat about it by sticking some dumb sign up on your window and showing your license.

If you're not intoxicated there's no reason to be afraid. If you've had a few drinks there's good reason for officers to be concerned to ensure you're within the legal limits.

If you're drunk, your ass needs to be off the road and into jail.

We don't need loopholes to get through these checkpoints, we need to fill them and make sure idiots aren't on the road and people shouldn't be trying to find ways around doing things that are being done in the name of public safety.

So, roll down your damn window, talk to the officer, and let him get a full impression of your ability to safely operate a vehicle. If the law steps out of the line and arrests a person who's not over the legal limit, then fine. Let's fight it.

But, Christ. I think in some cases we can give the police a touch of leeway.
 
Has anyone seen this before? I just used it in Virginia, and it worked like a charm.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fair-dui-flyers-help-pass-through-drunk-driving-checkpoints/

I've never been through a DUI checkpoint so I cannot speak to how much of an inconvenience they may be. But is it really that much of a big deal to simply roll-down your window, show your license, let the officer make a cursory look-over of you, and then move-on? There's no need to be an asshat about it by sticking some dumb sign up on your window and showing your license.

If you're not intoxicated there's no reason to be afraid. If you've had a few drinks there's good reason for officers to be concerned to ensure you're within the legal limits.

If you're drunk, your ass needs to be off the road and into jail.

We don't need loopholes to get through these checkpoints, we need to fill them and make sure idiots aren't on the road and people shouldn't be trying to find ways around doing things that are being done in the name of public safety.

So, roll down your damn window, talk to the officer, and let him get a full impression of your ability to safely operate a vehicle. If the law steps out of the line and arrests a person who's not over the legal limit, then fine. Let's fight it.

But, Christ. I think in some cases we can give the police a touch of leeway.

That is your prerogative. I am of the opinion that allowing law enforcement to circumvent your rights under any circumstances leads to a slippery slope.
 
Has anyone seen this before? I just used it in Virginia, and it worked like a charm.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fair-dui-flyers-help-pass-through-drunk-driving-checkpoints/

I've never been through a DUI checkpoint so I cannot speak to how much of an inconvenience they may be. But is it really that much of a big deal to simply roll-down your window, show your license, let the officer make a cursory look-over of you, and then move-on? There's no need to be an asshat about it by sticking some dumb sign up on your window and showing your license.

If you're not intoxicated there's no reason to be afraid. If you've had a few drinks there's good reason for officers to be concerned to ensure you're within the legal limits.

If you're drunk, your ass needs to be off the road and into jail.

We don't need loopholes to get through these checkpoints, we need to fill them and make sure idiots aren't on the road and people shouldn't be trying to find ways around doing things that are being done in the name of public safety.

So, roll down your damn window, talk to the officer, and let him get a full impression of your ability to safely operate a vehicle. If the law steps out of the line and arrests a person who's not over the legal limit, then fine. Let's fight it.

But, Christ. I think in some cases we can give the police a touch of leeway.

That is your prerogative. I am of the opinion that allowing law enforcement to circumvent your rights under any circumstances leads to a slippery slope.

But what rights are they circumventing? DUI Checkpoints are legal and all the officers are doing is to see your DL and giving you a cursory enough look to see if you're intoxicated. Remember that driving is a privilege and not a right. (Though the notion of it being a "privilege" always struck me as uncomfortable wording. Like government (which we the people hire and are in charge of) is patting us on the head and doing us a favor. Certainly there's a better word for something we have the freedom to do under the right circumstances but it is not a "right" we're allowed under the Constitution or any other legal documents structuring our government and society.)

If you're not intoxicated, best and most common-case scenario is you're inconvenienced for a moment. "Ugh, I had to press the "express down" button for the window!" or, "Ugh, I had to turn this crank a few times!"

Worst-case scenario you're detained for a while longer while the police figure out the situation. But that cannot detain you for long without cause.

Worst-worst case scenario you get something of a "false-positive" in any DUI tests (either the FST or a street-side breathalyser) taken to lock-up where more-than-likely the more accurate tests will figure out your level of intoxication.

If there's no to little ground to hold you very long or push any serious charges you've been largely inconvenienced. Annoying, but still mostly harmless.

Worst-worst-worst case scenario. You get those few asshole cops who trump-up charges and railroad you. You sue, plea to get the charges lessened or dropped and maybe get local news stories about you that go viral.

Worst-worst-worst-worst case scenario. You're actually drunk and your ass shouldn't be driving anyway and you're rightfully put in jail. The system works.

But, more than likely you're just going to be slightly inconvenienced. Roll down your window, show the license and get on with your damn night. There's no need to be an asshat about things.
 
I've never been through a DUI checkpoint so I cannot speak to how much of an inconvenience they may be. But is it really that much of a big deal to simply roll-down your window, show your license, let the officer make a cursory look-over of you, and then move-on? There's no need to be an asshat about it by sticking some dumb sign up on your window and showing your license.

If you're not intoxicated there's no reason to be afraid. If you've had a few drinks there's good reason for officers to be concerned to ensure you're within the legal limits.

If you're drunk, your ass needs to be off the road and into jail.

We don't need loopholes to get through these checkpoints, we need to fill them and make sure idiots aren't on the road and people shouldn't be trying to find ways around doing things that are being done in the name of public safety.

So, roll down your damn window, talk to the officer, and let him get a full impression of your ability to safely operate a vehicle. If the law steps out of the line and arrests a person who's not over the legal limit, then fine. Let's fight it.

But, Christ. I think in some cases we can give the police a touch of leeway.

That is your prerogative. I am of the opinion that allowing law enforcement to circumvent your rights under any circumstances leads to a slippery slope.

But what rights are they circumventing? DUI Checkpoints are legal and all the officers are doing is to see your DL and giving you a cursory enough look to see if you're intoxicated. Remember that driving is a privilege and not a right. (Though the notion of it being a "privilege" always struck me as uncomfortable wording. Like government (which we the people hire and are in charge of) is patting us on the head and doing us a favor. Certainly there's a better word for something we have the freedom to do under the right circumstances but it is not a "right" we're allowed under the Constitution or any other legal documents structuring our government and society.)

If you're not intoxicated, best and most common-case scenario is you're inconvenienced for a moment. "Ugh, I had to press the "express down" button for the window!" or, "Ugh, I had to turn this crank a few times!"

Worst-case scenario you're detained for a while longer while the police figure out the situation. But that cannot detain you for long without cause.

Worst-worst case scenario you get something of a "false-positive" in any DUI tests (either the FST or a street-side breathalyser) taken to lock-up where more-than-likely the more accurate tests will figure out your level of intoxication.

If there's no to little ground to hold you very long or push any serious charges you've been largely inconvenienced. Annoying, but still mostly harmless.

Worst-worst-worst case scenario. You get those few asshole cops who trump-up charges and railroad you. You sue, plea to get the charges lessened or dropped and maybe get local news stories about you that go viral.

Worst-worst-worst-worst case scenario. You're actually drunk and your ass shouldn't be driving anyway and you're rightfully put in jail. The system works.

But, more than likely you're just going to be slightly inconvenienced. Roll down your window, show the license and get on with your damn night. There's no need to be an asshat about things.

I know someone who uses the word asshat constantly. He's a star wars fanatic.

The sobriety check points may have been deemed legal by the courts. However, searches without probable cause remain illegal, which is why the Fair DUI flyer works in the first place.

I think the "inconveniences" you are referencing are "small picture." The "big picture" is that looking the other way when law enforcement infringes on your constitutional rights leads to bigger violations. When ignoring constitutional rights becomes routine it can open up all kinds of doors (up to and including police brutality, which has been routine in places like NYC).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfyaKG_tE5M
 
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I justifiably criticize the "reporter" who wrote the story. It says the flyer is tailored to 10 states but does not name those states, hence the "reporter" has not answered all of the questions good reporter answers in a well reported story. This is a problem I have with the internet Everyone thinks that owning a computer makes them a journalist just like owning a car makes them a driver.

CCC.
 
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