Legacy of Gul Dukat
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Dukat and Weyoun and Kai Winn are all certainly infinitely more developed characters and better villains than any of Trek's other villains.
It's really a toss up between those three. They are all fascinating characters, and played immaculately by master actors. Isn't really any objective way to claim one of those three is better than the other, since all of them are perfect. All three of them are tied for Trek's best bad guy IMO.
It's really a toss up between those three. They are all fascinating characters, and played immaculately by master actors. Isn't really any objective way to claim one of those three is better than the other, since all of them are perfect. All three of them are tied for Trek's best bad guy IMO.
Love Weyoun and Combs. In future Trek, I want Combs to play a Romulan. He's so good at treachery.
I loved Weyoun. Firstly, those eyes are beautifully sinister. Bright, burning blue. But beyond that, he had that sense of humor and personality that just stuck around. Maybe not the most threatening bad guy, but he was a lot of fun to watch.
I felt Kai Winn was always bad. Like, to the point where it was just kinda ridiculous. Sometimes I wanted to be like, "Kai, you're doing something stupid again. Do you know what are you doing? Really? That? Oh, well, fine."
And Dukat? I liked Dukat. I think Dukat was evil in the people could almost begin to see how he functions. He had his daughter, and his family, and his pride and his job. Anyone can almost relate to that, and I think that's part of what makes him so ominous.
I felt Kai Winn was always bad. Like, to the point where it was just kinda ridiculous. Sometimes I wanted to be like, "Kai, you're doing something stupid again. Do you know what are you doing? Really? That? Oh, well, fine."
And Dukat? I liked Dukat. I think Dukat was evil in the people could almost begin to see how he functions. He had his daughter, and his family, and his pride and his job. Anyone can almost relate to that, and I think that's part of what makes him so ominous.
The great thing about Dukat he wasn't evil all the time. He loved his kids, like Sisko, but let his personal ambition for power get in the way.
He had (some) compassion during the occupation but still had many Bajorans killed
He could be charming and tried to form a friendship w/Sisko but always wanted Sisko's OK and ended his life by fighting him
Was a lady's man, but was unsuccessful w/his main lust-Kira
Was a true Cardassian but hated and hated by the Obsidian Order
Its too bad we'll never, ever see the character of Gul Dukat aGAIN.
It's funny, but I've never considered Weyoun a villain. There was a level of innocence that kept me from ever seeing him as truly bad. Still one of my favorite characters/actors in Trek though.
As for Dukat... There are only two true villains in entirety Trek, and they're Khan and Dukat.
As for Dukat... There are only two true villains in entirety Trek, and they're Khan and Dukat.
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I'll never understand why so many think Khan is that great. I mean honestly, all he accomplished was killing Spock for a little while and he didn't even do that himself.
Is it because he was in a movie that was seen by a more mainstream audience, and not a TV show most probably haven't seen?
Khan was great because, at least to me, he was much more personal than most trek villains in that he wasn't conquering anything or trying to destroy earth. Hw wanted to beat Kirk.
But Dukat, he is certainly the most developed. And he was at times a good guy. So he is the most real and most "personal" of the trek bad guys. He really knew our heroes and saved their lives, but in the end wanted them all defeated...
Garak had that easy chance to kill him, but why would he have killed him then? He was on the good side kind of...
But Dukat, he is certainly the most developed. And he was at times a good guy. So he is the most real and most "personal" of the trek bad guys. He really knew our heroes and saved their lives, but in the end wanted them all defeated...
Garak had that easy chance to kill him, but why would he have killed him then? He was on the good side kind of...
So far, yeah.
Khan wasn't even in the same league - strutting, posturing, hammy, completely underdeveloped compared with DS9's villains. One episode and one movie simply aren't enough screen time to develop a truly great villain.
I'm in the process of watching Seasons 6 and 7. I'm currently on the Cardassian / Dominion occupation of Deep Space Nine.
I have mixed feelings about Dukat's character as a "bad guy." Sure he is an enemy of the Federation, but at the same time I don't consider him a true villian for some reason. He's not as evil as Weyoun and the Dominion in my opinion.
When I take a look at his tactical decision to "sell Cardassia to the Dominion," it appears to the be the best thing for Cardassia. They were a severely weakened Union, under constant pressure from Bajor, the Klingons, and the Maquis. Their alliance with the Dominion immediately thrusted Cardassia into its best state of power ever, and they finally could resist the pressures and forge an offensive. The also had the solid plan to rid themselves of the Dominion after the Alpha Quadrant was weakened enough. As evil as this plan sounds, it was tactically a great decision for Gul Dukat. When I watch the first war arc of Season 6, I see the Cardassian Union thriving like never before, and a confident Dukat actually keeping the Cardassian side of the alliance firm. He didn't let Weyoun walk all over him like Damar does.
Then when I look at his relationship with Sisko, he held such a great respect for Ben despite them being on opposite sides. It's more of a "no hard feelings" situation. Dukat recognizes power and is more concerned with the state of Cardassia and his position of power rather than the destruction of humanity. The Dominion was obsessed with destroying Earth's population and all the "solids," not Dukat.
Then I look at the situation with his daughter. She was the most important thing that mattered to him. He gave up everything for her - twice.
So when I look at Dukat, I see a man who is endlessly caught in an internal struggle between political power, his personal reputation, and being a good father. I don't see the vengeful villain that people portray him as.
I have mixed feelings about Dukat's character as a "bad guy." Sure he is an enemy of the Federation, but at the same time I don't consider him a true villian for some reason. He's not as evil as Weyoun and the Dominion in my opinion.
When I take a look at his tactical decision to "sell Cardassia to the Dominion," it appears to the be the best thing for Cardassia. They were a severely weakened Union, under constant pressure from Bajor, the Klingons, and the Maquis. Their alliance with the Dominion immediately thrusted Cardassia into its best state of power ever, and they finally could resist the pressures and forge an offensive. The also had the solid plan to rid themselves of the Dominion after the Alpha Quadrant was weakened enough. As evil as this plan sounds, it was tactically a great decision for Gul Dukat. When I watch the first war arc of Season 6, I see the Cardassian Union thriving like never before, and a confident Dukat actually keeping the Cardassian side of the alliance firm. He didn't let Weyoun walk all over him like Damar does.
Then when I look at his relationship with Sisko, he held such a great respect for Ben despite them being on opposite sides. It's more of a "no hard feelings" situation. Dukat recognizes power and is more concerned with the state of Cardassia and his position of power rather than the destruction of humanity. The Dominion was obsessed with destroying Earth's population and all the "solids," not Dukat.
Then I look at the situation with his daughter. She was the most important thing that mattered to him. He gave up everything for her - twice.
So when I look at Dukat, I see a man who is endlessly caught in an internal struggle between political power, his personal reputation, and being a good father. I don't see the vengeful villain that people portray him as.
In terms of development, yes. However, he wasn't the most insidious evil character on Trek. He was motivated by greed and a lust for power, above everything else. Weyoun was programmed to be the way he was, and thus escapes some of the blame. He is what he is.
Sloan, on the other hand, did evil things not for personal gain or for his own fulfillment, but because he was a fanatic. To quote Mal from Firefly, "There's nothing worse than a madman who thinks he's right with God."
Sloan, on the other hand, did evil things not for personal gain or for his own fulfillment, but because he was a fanatic. To quote Mal from Firefly, "There's nothing worse than a madman who thinks he's right with God."
Great point, but Sloan and 31 basically won the war (early) for the Allies.
Dukat was only good up to a point. Once he lost his mind, he wasnt that interesting anymore, plus he had a really lame death. Weyoun was amusing but i dont know that he really had the scope to be a major villain. Khan would be my choice. General Chang would be a good option as well.
^ Agreed muchly. Dukat had many redeeming qualities and was frankly a more skilled diplomat than either Sisko or Kira. It is his redeeming qualities that make him a compelling villain; and the excellent acting skills of Marc Alaimo made his screen presence sheer electromagnetism.
His fatal flaw, which Sisko nor Kira would ever forgive him for, was his hypocrisy and racial cleansing of Bajorans. Despite any of his well-polished rationalizations, the fact was, he hated Bajorans - a fact he came to admit when pushed to extremes in the "enemy-mine" type episode with Sisko (forgot the title). He was truly a butcher, which he called patriotism. His compelling lie was that he actually believed he was helping Bajor by forcing totalitarianism on them.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who occasionally sympathized with him, in his contrition. After all - his character would test the enlightened civilizations' capacities to forgive - which they probably would never really do, for all their self-righteousness.
What I really loved about him was that he knew what was happening on DS9 better than Sisko did.
yeah, and don't forget INVITING Dominion into the Alpha Q. and nearly handing it over to them.
"I'm leaving you Sisko, like you left me"
"Dukat"
"DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
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