Learning to love "Insurrection"

[Trek Survivor]

"Insurrection" has always been my least favourite film of all eleven Trek movies (yes, worse than TFF or Nemesis) yet for some reason - with the kids asleep and The Wife out for the night - it was this movie I chose to stick on in the background while I did important things like... check this forum.

Anyway - I'm rather enjoying it! Haven't seen it for at least seven or eight years. Just got up to the part where Picard realises the planet has rejuvenating properties. Enjoyed all of it so far, with the exception of the Riker/Troi scenes. I just find Marina Sirtis to be a somewhat limited actress, and it really comes to light in the movies for some reason.

But everything else - the plot, the cinematography (surely the nicest looking Trek film at least!), good use of the characters so far... it's not going to win awards for the most ambitious Trek, but it clearly doesn't deserve the harsh rap I've gjven it to date...
(of course, I haven't got to the "joystick" scene yet...! )

 

[BillJ]

Agreed about the cinematography. The rest of the film is an absolute wreck... worst movie the franchise produced.

 

[Maurice]

It's an unforgivably dull film with a weak plot, lame humor, and some substandard VFX. I'm glad you enjoy it, but to me it's an utter snooze.

 

[sonak]

Agreed about the cinematography. The rest of the film is an absolute wreck... worst movie the franchise produced.

I would say that the storyline is probably the worst and most poorly thought out of any of the movies, I don't think it's the worst in terms of overall quality, but it's pretty close to the bottom.


what's unbelievable is that this, THIS was the follow-up to ST: FC, one of the best and most succesful(critically and financially) of the Trek films.

Also, how did more people involved in this film not spot the glaring story and logic problems?


Anij is pretty hot, though, even if I hate her character, so there's that.

 

[Alrik]

Yes, the look of INS was great. For me, however, you're not going to get the hate. INS is a guilty pleasure of mine. I understand all of the pot shots that it takes, and that's fine. But to me, this was the closest they got to bringing the real TNG to the big screen. I find it much more watchable than GEN and especially NEM. But hey, to each their own.

 

[cblmc1296]

We would all agree, I'm sure, that there are several films in the Trek saga that are pretty bad. However, I have to say I find INS much more "watchable" than GEN, NEM, or TFF. I do agree with the bulk of the opinions here regarding INS being kinda weak - but I don't literally cringe watching it as I do with some of the others.

 

[Mark 2000]

It all depends on how splodey the movie is. TWOK and FC are non-stop super splodey so they appear on the tops of fan's lists despite the fact that their internal logic is as screwy as some of the most reviled films. Generations and Insurrection just have a few lame shoot outs and one big blast each. TWOK has one of the most epic capital ship battles ever and FC has Picard shooting Borg with a tommy gun. TWOK, despite me savaging it, is intelligent and clever enough to have my respect. I think it was made earnestly and it has its charms. FC was designed to appeal to fans' lowest base desires with little regard for anything else. I'm shocked people still dig it.

 

[cblmc1296]

It all depends on how splodey the movie is. TWOK and FC are non-stop super splodey so they appear on the tops of fan's lists despite the fact that their internal logic is as screwy as some of the most reviled films. Generations and Insurrection just have a few lame shoot outs and one big blast each. TWOK has one of the most epic capital ship battles ever and FC has Picard shooting Borg with a tommy gun. TWOK, despite me savaging it, is intelligent and clever enough to have my respect. I think it was made earnestly and it has its charms. FC was designed to appeal to fans' lowest base desires with little regard for anything else. I'm shocked people still dig it.

I'm sure there are those who like the splodey movies for that reason. IMHO though, TWOK has the characters interacting in much the same way they did in the TV series, which is refreshing after the dull, dry characterizations in TMP. It is for that reason that I like TWOK best (and TUC almost as much).

 

[Greg Cox]

The soundtrack is nice. I've been listening to it a lot lately.

 

[sonak]

It all depends on how splodey the movie is. TWOK and FC are non-stop super splodey so they appear on the tops of fan's lists despite the fact that their internal logic is as screwy as some of the most reviled films. Generations and Insurrection just have a few lame shoot outs and one big blast each. TWOK has one of the most epic capital ship battles ever and FC has Picard shooting Borg with a tommy gun. TWOK, despite me savaging it, is intelligent and clever enough to have my respect. I think it was made earnestly and it has its charms. FC was designed to appeal to fans' lowest base desires with little regard for anything else. I'm shocked people still dig it.

Ah, yes, the old critique that if you like a movie that happens to be an action movie, then you're a shallow fan who just likes cool explosions.

except..... TWOK, contrary to myth, DOESN'T really have that much action except for two battles, one of which only lasts about five minutes.

I bet INS and GEN probably have more action overall.

Also, I really like TVH which has almost no action, and which was also hugely popular, just like TWOK.


So.... could it be that TWOK and FC are just good movies that HAPPEN to be action movies?

 

[Jetboogieman]

I actually don't mind insurrection too much.

I think the biggest problem with insurrection is this.

It would have made a great episode of TNG, it just wasn't strong enough to stand as a full length movie.

 

[Mark 2000]

Ah, yes, the old critique that if you like a movie that happens to be an action movie, then you're a shallow fan who just likes cool explosions.

Nope. I didn't say that. I said splodies can blind people to the faults of people. The original Star Wars trilogy is much more action packed than any Trek film, and I find them very satisfying on all levels. There is such a thing as a smart action movie.

except..... TWOK, contrary to myth, DOESN'T really have that much action except for two battles, one of which only lasts about five minutes.

Not exactly. There's ear worms, the blood bath on Regula I, the shoot out in the asteroid. And the two battles are MUCH longer than five minutes. Not to mention the escape sequence and the birth of Genesis. Not to mention the Kobiyashi Maru that kills the entire crew in the first five minutes of the film. That's an action rampage.

Also, I really like TVH which has almost no action, and which was also hugely popular, just like TWOK.

See point one.

So.... could it be that TWOK and FC are just good movies that HAPPEN to be action movies?

I already said TWOK is an earnest, clever film, but with a lot of logical flaws. At least as many as Generations. TWOK has the extra good action sequences in it. FC is nothing but action with almost not plot at all. It's just a bad film. I like (not love) TWOK, that's why I like to bash it. I frakking hate FC, that's why I won't even discuss it at any real length.

 

[sonak]

Ah, yes, the old critique that if you like a movie that happens to be an action movie, then you're a shallow fan who just likes cool explosions.

Nope. I didn't say that. I said splodies can blind people to the faults of people. The original Star Wars trilogy is much more action packed than any Trek film, and I find them very satisfying on all levels. There is such a thing as a smart action movie.

except..... TWOK, contrary to myth, DOESN'T really have that much action except for two battles, one of which only lasts about five minutes.

Not exactly. There's ear worms, the blood bath on Regula I, the shoot out in the asteroid. And the two battles are MUCH longer than five minutes. Not to mention the escape sequence and the birth of Genesis. Not to mention the Kobiyashi Maru that kills the entire crew in the first five minutes of the film. That's an action rampage.

Also, I really like TVH which has almost no action, and which was also hugely popular, just like TWOK.

See point one.

So.... could it be that TWOK and FC are just good movies that HAPPEN to be action movies?

I already said TWOK is an earnest, clever film, but with a lot of logical flaws. At least as many as Generations. TWOK has the extra good action sequences in it. FC is nothing but action with almost not plot at all. It's just a bad film. I like (not love) TWOK, that's why I like to bash it. I frakking hate FC, that's why I won't even discuss it at any real length.

I don't have the movie in front of me, but I'm pretty sure the first space battle is only about five minutes, but I could be wrong on that point. The "earworm" scene isn't really action either time, it's an earworm crawling into an ear, then later, Kirk just fires a phaser quickly at it.

the "bloodbath scene" You mean a scene where they just discover some dead bodies? Describing the "birth of the Genesis planet" scene as an action sequence?

I think you're kind of reaching to make your point that it's an action movie. If you're going to define "action scene" that loosely, then Generations is practically non-stop action from beginning to end.

And of course you're right that TWOK has logic holes, but I think all of the Trek films do. What matters is the characters, the entertainment, and it helps if it has something meaningful to say.

 

[Mark 2000]

I consider the entire escape from the Genesis wave to the explosion and formation of the planet to be an action sequence, and an 8 minute long one at that. Kirk has a knife fight with david in the cave. Terrel shoots someone and then himself. There are dead bodies and earworms everywhere - which is admittedly more horror but is still in the same, or possibly lower, visceral neighborhood. And the film starts by ¡Killing the entire bridge crew! That sets the tone of the movie. You're the only person I've ever spoken to that has made the claim that TWOK is not an action movie. So I kind of find this discussion a little odd and possibly facetious.

 

[Jetboogieman]

I consider the entire escape from the Genesis wave to the explosion and formation of the planet to be an action sequence, and an 8 minute long one at that. Kirk has a knife fight with david in the cave. Terrel shoots someone and then himself. There are dead bodies and earworms everywhere - which is admittedly more horror but is still in the same, or possibly lower, visceral neighborhood. And the film starts by ¡Killing the entire bridge crew! That sets the tone of the movie. You're the only person I've ever spoken to that has made the claim that TWOK is not an action movie. So I kind of find this discussion a little odd and possibly facetious.

See now i wouldn't say TWOK is an action movie, in the same way i would say that lord of the rings isn't an action.

Its a sci fi adventure movie to be sure, but i wouldn't describe the knife fight, or Terrels suicides as "action" per say. Its all very exciting and engaging but i guess maybe thats everyones different perception, when I think action movie, im thinking Bruce willis killing some muthafuckas

 

[Psion]

I don't like any of the TNG films, but I dislike "Insurrection" least. Mostly because it feels like an episode and isn't about yet another imminent threat to Earth. The cinematography (as Trek Survivor notes) is good, and I like the music. But the attempts at goofy humor ding it (a lot of the Data scenes and, of course, the joystick). The premise of the movie and the pursuit of the ring particles just doesn't make much sense. Nor does the apparent strength of the Son'a ... the Ketracel-white business must pay well. But I like the battle with Ru'afo in the collector ship.

 

[Harvey]

Goldsmith's score is nice. But the cinematography doesn't hold a candle to Star Trek: Generations, which might be the best photographed of the Trek movies. As a movie, it's just okay. It captures the tone of the series better than the three other movies, I think, for better or worse.

 

[Mark 2000]

Harv, I'm with you there. I love the way Generations looks. It's another reason to mourn the loss of the original sets and the D. It all looked so good on the big screen.

 

[Harvey]

Harv, I'm with you there. I love the way Generations looks. It's another reason to mourn the loss of the original sets and the D. It all looked so good on the big screen.

They looked good, but I give most of the credit for that to the cinematographer, John Alonzo, who also shot Chinatown. He's easily the best cinematographer to work on a Trek movie.

 

[Trek Survivor]

Yes, the look of INS was great. For me, however, you're not going to get the hate. INS is a guilty pleasure of mine. I understand all of the pot shots that it takes, and that's fine. But to me, this was the closest they got to bringing the real TNG to the big screen. I find it much more watchable than GEN and especially NEM. But hey, to each their own.

Well, having finished the film now... I still like it! The villain was weak, but - as Alrik says above - this felt like The Next Generation I'd watched for seven years on the TV. I may prefer ST: FC as a film, but it wasn't like the TV series in tone or scope... "Insurrection" was.

It had a nice moral soapbox for Picard, some slightly cringeworthy bits of humour for the main characters... just like the show!

I liked the action (I liked the sequences with the darts that transported you away), and I thought the gentle romance between Picard and Anij was well handled.

Yeah, my estimation of this movie has gone way up.