Learning to love "Insurrection"

[sonak]

I’m not even going to bother with Hartzilla2007’s latest round of nonsense, but want to make one more observation.

The Ba’ku are intended to be sympathetic because they live the simple modest life of the “space Amish,” but if you accept the claim that they are the rightful owners of the planet, these 600 Ba’ku are among the wealthiest people in the galaxy. They are a very small number of über-über-über-über-rich who discovered an incredibly bountiful planet, claim they’re entitled to everything they laid their eyes on, refuse to share, and don’t care how their selfishness impacts the healthcare of hundreds of billions of others. It’s so Tea Party it’s ridiculous (though a key difference is that the Tea Party goes to bat for wealthy people who for the most part have earned their wealth rather than stumbling on it). I’ll give the movie this much: it’s eerily prescient.


Ugh, OK, this one part I just have to respond to:

Picard told them Ru’afo would never go ahead with the procedure while human shields were in place. That turned out not to be true, but the Ba’ku trusted him. He put them in harm’s way, told them everything was going to be fine, and is incredibly lucky they didn’t get killed as a result.

So it's Picard's fault Ru'afo is a complete monster obsessed with revenge at all cost

If you use human shields to try to deter someone who’s enough of a monster not to be deterred by them, and they get killed, then you bear responsibility for that result. The practice is condemned by practically every civilization on Earth, especially when the shields are children. Decent human beings don’t do it. It’s not just wrong, it’s evil.

I very much agree with your observations on the Baku, and it's one of the reasons that the movie doesn't work for me-I don't find the Baku sympathetic, despite the movie's attempts at stacking the deck by making them pretty and the Son'a repulsive and ugly.

The Baku, by any reasonable measure, are self-centered, hypocritical assholes. It was one thing at the beginning of the story when they didn't know what was going on. But by the end, they should be falling all over themselves to LEAVE the planet so the UFP and Son'a can get the resources.

remember-the Baku AREN'T GIVING ANYTHING UP. They'd still get the resources, same as the UFP and the Son'a. And they could always follow their Amish lifestyle on some other planet.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I’m not even going to bother with Hartzilla2007’s latest round of nonsense

In other words you have nothing.

Well I have one fact that trumps whatever arguments you think justify your stance.

When Andrew Jackson wanted wanted to relocate the Cherokee, they fought it in the courts and got all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. You want to know how they ruled, I'll give you a hint, Jackson wasn't happy about it. In fact the only reason the Cherokee were relocated was because Andrew Jackson believed being president of the United States meant that he could do whatever he damned well pleased and anyone who didn't like it could kiss his ass.

Thankfully the hopefully doesn't fly these days.

So are you going to call history nonsense now?

 

[Captrek]

It was one thing at the beginning of the story when they didn't know what was going on. But by the end, they should be falling all over themselves to LEAVE the planet so the UFP and Son'a can get the resources.

As several people have pointed out in this thread, the one defense of the Ba’ku to this charge is also an indictment of the film: the fact that nobody actually asks them. The parties with conflicting interests never speak to each other. Picard takes it upon himself to speak for the Ba’ku, refuses to negotiate as a matter of principle, and implements his incredibly reckless plan of resisting by using the Ba’ku as human shields.

What an incredible departure from the values on which the TV series was conceived. I wonder what Gene Roddenberry would have said about the script. Probably something like, “Why don’t Picard, Dougherty, Ru’afo, Anij, and Sojef sit down together and try to resolve their differences by talking to each other? Duh!” That kind of sensibility is why he went with an older, more cerebral captain instead of another Kirk-like action hero. If only Picard had ratcheted down the testosterone long enough to say, “Let’s talk,” all the problems might have been avoided.

 

[Captrek]

I’m not even going to bother with Hartzilla2007’s latest round of nonsense

In other words you have nothing.

In other words, I’m getting a little tired of your nonsense and am not interested at this time in pointing out the incredible nonsense in just about every sentence you post.

Well I have one fact that trumps whatever arguments you think justify your stance.

When Andrew Jackson wanted wanted to relocate the Cherokee, they fought it in the courts and got all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. You want to know how they ruled, I'll give you a hint, Jackson wasn't happy about it. In fact the only reason the Cherokee were relocated was because Andrew Jackson believed being president of the United States meant that he could do whatever he damned well pleased and anyone who didn't like it could kiss his ass.

That’s popular history, not accurate history.

The case was Worcester v. Georgia. The case was a matter of Georgia—not the federal government—attempting to enforce its laws on Indian lands, and the Court ruled that the states did not have authority, though the federal government did. It was decided on the grounds of federalism, not inalienable human rights of the Indians. Jackson, who was no fan of the Indians, supposedly said, “John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it!” but historians put that in the same category as “Let them eat cake” and “I can't tell a lie, Pa; you know I can't tell a lie. I did cut it with my hatchet.” (That category, if you haven’t guessed, is famous historical quotes that were manufactured for political purposes and have no basis in fact.) Georgia did in fact comply with the Court’s order.

So are you going to call history nonsense now?

The way you tell it, yes.

 

[sonak]

It was one thing at the beginning of the story when they didn't know what was going on. But by the end, they should be falling all over themselves to LEAVE the planet so the UFP and Son'a can get the resources.

As several people have pointed out in this thread, the one defense of the Ba’ku to this charge is also an indictment of the film: the fact that nobody actually asks them. The parties with conflicting interests never speak to each other. Picard takes it upon himself to speak for the Ba’ku, refuses to negotiate as a matter of principle, and implements his incredibly reckless plan of resisting by using the Ba’ku as human shields.

What an incredible departure from the values on which the TV series was conceived. I wonder what Gene Roddenberry would have said about the script. Probably something like, “Why don’t Picard, Dougherty, Ru’afo, Anij, and Sojef sit down together and try to resolve their differences by talking to each other? Duh!” That kind of sensibility is why he went with an older, more cerebral captain instead of another Kirk-like action hero. If only Picard had ratcheted down the testosterone long enough to say, “Let’s talk,” all the problems might have been avoided.

well yes, nobody directly asks them, but by the end of the film, the Baku MUST know what this was all about-I mean, some of the Son'a who were returning to the planet at the end of the movie could tell them, plus I think the conversation between Anij and Picard about him being "tempted" is an indication that Anij knows what they're after. We're supposed to get the indication that the Baku just don't care about the rest of the galaxy.(like when Anij says why should they space travel, when that would just take them away from their little paradise. Yes, asshole, you wouldn't maybe want to let OTHERS know about the miracle you've found, you just want it all for yourselves)

and as to the other poster who brought it up, the Indian removal analogy is a ridiculous one.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

remember-the Baku AREN'T GIVING ANYTHING UP. They'd still get the resources, same as the UFP and the Son'a. And they could always follow their Amish lifestyle on some other planet.

Not in the original plan, Which was beam up the Baku, transport them to a new planet.

In fact it was said in the film that the Baku weren't getting any of the metaphysics. I.e. that line about how the Baku were never ment to be immortal and how the Federation was returning the Baku to their natural course of evolution. Which is kind of hypocritical when you think about it.

 

[T'Girl]

And seeing as the Baku predate the federation by a century I don't why they can't claim the planet

According to dialog during DS9, prior to the Briar Patch being Federation space it was Klingon space, the Klingons (actually Kor) took it way from the Romulans in the second half of the 23rd century. There no indication (one way or the other) that when the Baku arrived at the planet, that the area was unclaimed, By the Romulans, or whoever had it before them.

The federation was trying to take some else's planet

Nope, it was the Federation's planet. Picard was the one who presents that fact.

... the Halkans ... the Organians ... the Capellans
In TOS the Federation never took what it wanted from other planets without some agreement in place ...

Kirk: "But you have the ryetalyn that we need! If necessary, we'll take it."

Flint and the Baku have some things in common, neither is indigenous, neither is a large population, both are blocking the Federation from a life saving substance.

the fact that they were going to forcibly evict settlers from Omicron Ceti III in This Side of Paradise

The similarity there is, just like the Baku, the intent was to protect the colonists from harm.

[The prime directive]That was the entire reason they stayed out of Bajor's problems with the Cardassians

More likely the main reason was the hot and cold boarder war the Federation and the Union were fighting during that time period.

CALLING THE SONA THUGS

What does that (truthful) aspect have to do with the health enhancing particles orbiting a Federation planet, and the hundreds of billions of people those particles can help?

YOUR OPINION OF IT [prime directive] DOESN'T MEAN YOU GET TO IGNORE THAT IT EXISTS

Why not, the characters on the shows regularly did.

In other words abandon the federation's principals if they don't get their way

Would you feel better if the Federation printed out a formal legal eviction notice? And had a civilian law enforcement officer (and not Starfleet) serve the Baku?

[holoship]Yet nobody asks why they went to such efforts to hide it's existence for Picard and Co if everything was on the up and up.

They were hiding it from the Baku.

What makes you think they’re entitled to business as usual? By what right do these 600 people own the billions of tons of metaphasic material in the rings?

It's their planet

Nope, it is the Federation's planet.

Picard: "A planet in Federation space."

Captain Picard: Who the hell are we to determine the next course of evolution for these people?

Picard himself seemed to spend a considerable amount of time during the movie doing exactly that.

plus their leader tried to commit mass murder, killed a fed admiral, attack the fed flagship, tried to kill fed officers, they would probably want to get as far away from being associated with Ru'afo as possible so Starfleet doesn't kick their asses.

What does any of that have to do with the health enhancing particles orbiting a Federation planet, and the hundreds of billions of people those particles can help?

Because nothing you just sighted changes what the particles can do, and with the reconciliation between the Baku and the Sona, the Baku now have somewhere to be relocated too. everyone happy.

Certainly the hundreds of billions of people those particled will help are.

justifications based on the word OF THIS EPISODE'S CORRUPT ADMIRAL.

Picard: "I will take this to the Federation Council."

Doughterty: "I'm acting on orders from the Federation Council."

In fact it was said in the film that the Baku weren't getting any of the metaphysics.

Nope, just checked the transcript, the movie never said that.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Nope, just checked the transcript, the movie never said that.

Really I could have sworn it was that line about the Baku not being immortal originally and the Feds just returning them to their natural state as in MORTAL which they wouldn't exactly be if they got metaphsics now would they. In fact I even quoted that line in this thread.

 

[Captrek]

As several people have pointed out in this thread, the one defense of the Ba’ku to this charge is also an indictment of the film: the fact that nobody actually asks them.

well yes, nobody directly asks them, but by the end of the film, the Baku MUST know what this was all about-I mean, some of the Son'a who were returning to the planet at the end of the movie could tell them, plus I think the conversation between Anij and Picard about him being "tempted" is an indication that Anij knows what they're after. We're supposed to get the indication that the Baku just don't care about the rest of the galaxy.(like when Anij says why should they space travel, when that would just take them away from their little paradise. Yes, asshole, you wouldn't maybe want to let OTHERS know about the miracle you've found, you just want it all for yourselves)

It’s not a very good defense, it’s just the one defense they have.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

As several people have pointed out in this thread, the one defense of the Ba’ku to this charge is also an indictment of the film: the fact that nobody actually asks them.

well yes, nobody directly asks them, but by the end of the film, the Baku MUST know what this was all about-I mean, some of the Son'a who were returning to the planet at the end of the movie could tell them, plus I think the conversation between Anij and Picard about him being "tempted" is an indication that Anij knows what they're after. We're supposed to get the indication that the Baku just don't care about the rest of the galaxy.(like when Anij says why should they space travel, when that would just take them away from their little paradise. Yes, asshole, you wouldn't maybe want to let OTHERS know about the miracle you've found, you just want it all for yourselves)

It’s not a very good defense, it’s just the one defense they have.

Well there is the whole the federation never once in the film trying to negotiate for it, even after they were found out.

I mean it's out of character for them after all the times they negotiate for important stuff to say lets take it from then without even 1) offering anything for it, 2) Leting them know they are even interested in it, or 3) Even letting them know that it had even been taken.

I mean if you want to be technical its like some guy living on a island that eventually is within U.S. territory which has a lot of iol on it and the U.S. govt decides instead of offering to buy it from him, they have the Navy wait till he's asleep grab him, throw him in the back of a chopper and drop he somewhere else.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

So it's Picard's fault Ru'afo is a complete monster obsessed with revenge at all cost

If you use human shields to try to deter someone who’s enough of a monster not to be deterred by them, and they get killed, then you bear responsibility for that result. The practice is condemned by practically every civilization on Earth, especially when the shields are children. Decent human beings don’t do it. It’s not just wrong, it’s evil.

1) I believe Picard was under the assumption that Doughtery could keep Ru'afo under control seeing as the feds were suppost to be in charge here so the idea the Ru'afo would actually kill even seemed suprised when Ru'afo went with the kill everyone plan.


2) Ru'afo had pretty much lost when he decided to go for the kill everyone idea seeing as there was likely no way the federation was going to go through with the idea what with the shooting at Riker which he likely told them about and the whole with holding the fact that the Baku and Sona were the same race making this an internal matter which the federation has a policy for staying out of NO MATTER WHAT. So even if everyone was on the ship at that point he still might have tried to kill everyone.

² Oops... turned out the ecosystem was still toxic and they had to evacuate again. In 1983 the US paid the Bikinians $150 million as compensation. This is probably not relevant to the INS discussion.

I just thought of a reason this is relevant, the highlighted portion invalidates your example because the U.S. compensated the natives.

The federation had no stated plans to do that with the Baku.

By what right? The first small group of settlers to reach a planet owns the whole planet? Is that how property rights are supposed to work in the Star Trek universe?

Yes, they seem to work that way seeing as all the Federation colonies seen were made up of small groups and the planets were still considered federation property and thus under Starfleet's protection against groups that wanted to take them.

Yes, the holoship stunt was immoral and stupid. I think everybody agrees on that.

Unfourtunately it's at the core of your position and there's nothing else there. The other plan they used was still kidnap the natives they just decided not to be quiet about it anymore. So the planet is still being taking with out any offer of compenseation or any negotiation for that matter.

 

[Captrek]

So it's Picard's fault Ru'afo is a complete monster obsessed with revenge at all cost

If you use human shields to try to deter someone who’s enough of a monster not to be deterred by them, and they get killed, then you bear responsibility for that result. The practice is condemned by practically every civilization on Earth, especially when the shields are children. Decent human beings don’t do it. It’s not just wrong, it’s evil.

1) I believe Picard was under the assumption that Doughtery could keep Ru'afo under control seeing as the feds were suppost to be in charge here so the idea the Ru'afo would actually kill even seemed suprised when Ru'afo went with the kill everyone plan.

Your defense of the human shield tactic is that he honestly thought it would work.

You are impossible to take seriously!

 

[Hartzilla2007]

You are impossible to take seriously!

Ru'afo wasn't doing this becuase they stayed he was doing it OUT OF SPITE, becuase HE LOST. It was OVER at that point. There was no way the federation was going to go through with the procedure given everything that happened no matter how you ignore it. He was acting like a petulant child, THATS WAS THE FUCKING POINT OF THAT PLOT DEVELOPEMENT, to show that he was still that bitter young man and revenge was ALL he cared about.

In fact until this point Ru'afo was very reasonable and was content to use the tagging drone things to get them he only wanted everyone dead after everything went up in smoke, and do you honestly think he wouldn't kill the Baku out of spite even if they surrendered at the point.

Also FYI this isn't a human shield this is a sit in to stop a bulldozer. Only a inhuman monster would actually drive the bulldozer over a protest and Picard and the Baku (who aren't as dumb as you think and likely no whats going on here) had no reason to suspect this of Ru'afo. Anger management issues maybe, but still not in complete monster territory or he would have just killed them without even thinking about moving them.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

*giggles sheepishly*

 

[BillJ]

Condsidering how debunked your examples are you might want to bring Modern Trek out.

No. They simply show that while something may seem immoral on the surface that there are usually contributing factors that make them the right decision.

A couple of questions for Hartzilla:

1) What if the territory belonged to the Romulans before the Ba'ku landed? The Klingons win it in a dispute then cede it to the Federation in a treaty. Wouldn't that then make the territory the property of the Federation? As a 'by-the-by' the Augment trilogy had the area as a part of Klingon territory in the 2150's.

2) Once word of the 'metaphasic particles' gets out, I'm sure that more than one race will be interested in it's ability to double lifespans. Some may be even willing to go to war to possess it. Would you be willing to make the Ba'ku a Federation protectorate and fight a war on their behalf? It's still a planet in Federation territory.

In fact it was said in the film that the Baku weren't getting any of the metaphysics. I.e. that line about how the Baku were never ment to be immortal and how the Federation was returning the Baku to their natural course of evolution. Which is kind of hypocritical when you think about it.

I guess you can interpret that line anyway you like. But since metaphasics was only going to double lifespans the Ba'ku would no longer be immortal regardless of whether they received treatments or not.

Hate the movie... but love these debates surrounding the ethics of it.

 

[sonak]

remember-the Baku AREN'T GIVING ANYTHING UP. They'd still get the resources, same as the UFP and the Son'a. And they could always follow their Amish lifestyle on some other planet.

Not in the original plan, Which was beam up the Baku, transport them to a new planet.

In fact it was said in the film that the Baku weren't getting any of the metaphysics. I.e. that line about how the Baku were never ment to be immortal and how the Federation was returning the Baku to their natural course of evolution. Which is kind of hypocritical when you think about it.

well a lot of us here are in agreement that the holoship deception was a crappy plan. BUT, the only reason the Federation was doing that was because they thought that the Baku were a primitive, pre-contact, pre-warp society, and didn't want to interfere with them directly.

It's ironic, but Ru'afo's refusal to tell the truth about the Baku ended up being what screwed him over. Had he told Dougherty about the nature of the Baku(not even necessarily about the Son'a's relationship to them, only that the Baku weren't primitives), then Dougherty might have just tried open negotiation or open removal if negbotiation failed.


Essentially, the whole storyline is like a poorly balanced house of cards. If every party involved weren't acting stupidly(the Son'a and Dougherty), selfishly(the Baku), or out of character(Picard), then you wouldn't have much of a movie.

 

[Captrek]

You are impossible to take seriously!

Ru'afo wasn't doing this becuase they stayed he was doing it OUT OF SPITE, becuase HE LOST. It was OVER at that point. There was no way the federation was going to go through with the procedure given everything that happened no matter how you ignore it.

There was no way the Federation could stop it at that point. The only reason the Federation was involved in the first place was the Federation’s territorial claim over the planet: “We have the planet. They have the technology. A technology we can't duplicate. You know what that makes us? Partners.”

The Son’a were there. They had their ships and the collector. The only Federation presence was the Enterprise and Dougherty. The Son’a were in a position to collect the particles. The Federation might later come after the Son’a and attempt to retrieve the illegally gotten particles, but they couldn’t prevent the procedure.

He was acting like a petulant child, THATS WAS THE FUCKING POINT OF THAT PLOT DEVELOPEMENT, to show that he was still that bitter young man and revenge was ALL he cared about.

He obviously had a lot of anger for the Ba’ku—and given how his people had been treated by the Ba’ku I can’t blame him—but his primary concern was apparently the lives of his own people.

In fact until this point Ru'afo was very reasonable and was content to use the tagging drone things to get them he only wanted everyone dead after everything went up in smoke, and do you honestly think he wouldn't kill the Baku out of spite even if they surrendered at the point.

Do I honestly think he wouldn’t kill the Ba’ku out of spite even if they surrendered at the point? I am absolutely certain of it.

He had many of the Ba’ku and Starfleet officers in custody, the ones he had managed to beam off the surface against their will. When he was ready to start the collection, he gave this order:

RU'AFO: Separate the Starfleet personnel and secure them in the aft cargo hold. See that Picard joins them.
GALLATIN: The shields in that section won't protect them against the thermolytic reaction.
RU'AFO: Thank-you for reminding me.

He was ready to kill the Starfleet officers out of spite, but not the Ba’ku.

Also FYI this isn't a human shield this is a sit in to stop a bulldozer. Only a inhuman monster would actually drive the bulldozer over a protest and Picard and the Baku (who aren't as dumb as you think and likely no whats going on here) had no reason to suspect this of Ru'afo. Anger management issues maybe, but still not in complete monster territory or he would have just killed them without even thinking about moving them.

You are considerably overstating the case against Ru’afo.

It was made explicit in the film that there were Son’a lives at stake. There were many Son’a who were too far gone to save their lives just by moving back to the planet from which they had been exiled (if the Ba’ku would even permit that). They had to collect the particles, or die. Picard actually exacerbated this situation by threatening to turn the Federation against the plan so that they would act to prevent it. This created a now-or-never situation for the Son’a. They had to collect the particles to save their own lives, and thanks to Picard they might never have another chance.

Ru’afo chose to sacrifice the lives of the Ba’ku in order to save the lives of his own people.

Was his choice murderous? Was it highly immoral? You could certainly make that case, I would probably agree, and so would Ru’afo’s first officer.

Was it a choice that “only an inhuman monster” could make? Definitely not.

Was it a development that Captain Jean-Luc Picard (or the audience), given what he knew of the situation, might reasonably reasonably dismiss as something that couldn’t happen? Definitely, definitely not. It was extremely predictable. There is no excuse not to realize that the tactic put the Ba’ku in grave danger. This is “teenager in a slasher film” level of stupid.

 

[CaptainStoner]

again, it's explained in the movie, I think during the scene between Picard and Dougherty when they first have the argument-some of the Son'a just don't have the time for the particles to take effect.

Ok, but that would turn the tables of the needs of the many vs. the few back the other way.

Where are you getting the idea that the collector wasn't going to work? They had Starfleet personnel there, I'm sure they analyzed the collector and determined it would work.

That's just my own guess. But I can really see it going down that way. That's how life is. They'd get no vaccine, and no Lt. Yar.

The reason they didn't use diplomacy was because of the script's weakness. There's no way it would work out. Either the Baku would agree to be relocated for the greater good the resources would provide, and thus there's no story, OR, they refuse to be relocated, putting their Luddite village above the greater interests of the Federation, the Son'a, etc., and thus they lose audience sympathy as they're portrayed as rigid, inflexible, and ludicrously self-centered.

Well yes I agree it's the script's weakness. For me though, I didn't lose sympathy with the Baku because it seemed obvious that Dougherty's collusion with the holo-ship/collector plan was under the radar, and not with Starfleet approval.
And like the viability of the collector, I also doubt whether a few Sona really were going to die imminently, except maybe Rualfo. You can only get your face stretched so many times.
Admittedly, my suppositions are to make the film work better. And I feel a bit of balanced Luddite-ism is probably a good thing - quality over quantity.

 

[Jeyl]

Question. Wouldn't the acquisition of this healing power help stem the tide of the Dominion War? You know. That war the Federation is currently fighting? The war that those special talented individuals have concluded that we would lose? Imagine how many alien societies would have thought differently when presented with the "Nonaggression Pact" if the Federation was the only side with the means of Increasing life spans, curing diseases, and restoring bodily functions like eye sight!

Nah. Better to let Federation have less allies, millions of lives lost and have the Dominion wage genocidal acts on the galaxy instead of inconveniencing 600 people. Those poor, poor Baku.

 

[sonak]

again, it's explained in the movie, I think during the scene between Picard and Dougherty when they first have the argument-some of the Son'a just don't have the time for the particles to take effect.

Ok, but that would turn the tables of the needs of the many vs. the few back the other way.

Where are you getting the idea that the collector wasn't going to work? They had Starfleet personnel there, I'm sure they analyzed the collector and determined it would work.

That's just my own guess. But I can really see it going down that way. That's how life is. They'd get no vaccine, and no Lt. Yar.

The reason they didn't use diplomacy was because of the script's weakness. There's no way it would work out. Either the Baku would agree to be relocated for the greater good the resources would provide, and thus there's no story, OR, they refuse to be relocated, putting their Luddite village above the greater interests of the Federation, the Son'a, etc., and thus they lose audience sympathy as they're portrayed as rigid, inflexible, and ludicrously self-centered.

Well yes I agree it's the script's weakness. For me though, I didn't lose sympathy with the Baku because it seemed obvious that Dougherty's collusion with the holo-ship/collector plan was under the radar, and not with Starfleet approval.
And like the viability of the collector, I also doubt whether a few Sona really were going to die imminently, except maybe Rualfo. You can only get your face stretched so many times.
Admittedly, my suppositions are to make the film work better. And I feel a bit of balanced Luddite-ism is probably a good thing - quality over quantity.

yeah, as mentioned the holo-ship deception seems out of character for Starfleet, but it was necessitated by the assumption that the Baku were a low-tech, primitive culture. Also, it's possible that the higher-ups didn't know the EXACT plan for removal, they'd left the details to Dougherty, who'd devised the holo-ship plan with his Starfleet crew and the Son'a.


And the issue with the dying Son'a brings up yet ANOTHER story weakness. We're dealing with a huge planet, right? And since the Baku have rejected higher technology, I don't see how they'd have detected the Son'a had they come back to the planet periodically to get some of those "youth-restoring" particles after they were exiled. Why wait and come to Dougherty when you're already on death's doorstep?