LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoilers!)

[kirk55555]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

People: he has now three times made character judgments based on a summary that we have told him is misleading and woefully incomplete, but which he still says is complete and detailed anyway, based on nothing but his own stubbornness. Clearly: we're not going to win this one.

I think it's time to let this argument die.

EDIT: Though I did just realize - this book actually is mentioned in the wider continuity, events in the book are featured quite seriously in DS9: Mission Gamma: Twilight.

And Gell Kamemor, who was introduced in Serpents, is now the Praetor of the Romulan Star Empire.

Well, good characters can come from bad sources/stories. I like her, although hearing that she was connected to that stupid story makes it seem like we're very lucky that she turned out to be a decent character.

Plus, how can the events of Serpents feature in DS9: Mission Gamma: Twilight, when the DS9 book came out first? Amazon.com has Twilight listed as releasing in 2002, and Serpent's in 2003. I guess Serpent's could tell the story of something Twilight mentioned, but then that's just making me think that Twilight sucks, too.

[...] I just count this as one of the stupider ST books that tells a story that, when it comes to stories I consider canon in my head, never happened. Feel free to enjoy it, its just somthing I really dislike.

But, by your own admission, you've never even read it. Therefore, how does this novel even rank as "one of the stupider ST books"?

It's one of the stupidest ST books I've heard of. There probably are stupider ones, but this happens to be one that stands out with its stupidity to me. Not every ST book/story is going to be liked by everyone. To me, Serpents has a horrible premise and doesn't even seem like a book about a Star Fleet officer, it seems like a stupid Section 31 story. Some people like that, obviously. But to me it sounds awful, and so I'll happily never read the book about the idiot Captain becoming a paranoid intelligence officer. Honestly, I'm starting to wonder if I should read any DRG III books. I liked his Typhoon Pact and The Fall DS9 books, and I thought One Constant Star was decent, but after all of these posts I'm seriously questioning his writing ability. I definitely won't even consider reading any of his pre-Typhoon Pact books, but I guess I'll remain open to reading his stuff if he does another DS9 book.

 

[Kertrats47]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

So after reading a few of his books and enjoying them, you've now decided to "seriously question his writing ability" thanks to testimonials by other readers about how good another one of his books is, one that you haven't read?

The mind boggles, my friend.

 

[Markonian]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

Diverting the topic towards One Constant Star...

It was a slow start but I kept on it for the final 40%, finishing it in two sittings. It's a strong book, almost great - except for the open questions. Good thing we have a thread to seek their answers!

1) I gather the arachnoids weren't the Rejarrians, or their descendants? So, what happened to them? Did the portal bring them somewhere else and had reset to a different location by the time Excelsior arrived?

2) If the stars and location were completely unknown, how could Harriman find Odyssey in the unknown starscape?

3) Where there any other civilizations in "Demora's universe" (named by Harriman)? Did Enterprise just fly straight to Odyssey without meeting anybody? Also, did they explore that universe while they were there, like leaving behind probes along the way?


Back to praising the book: It was truly thrilling when the lives of the characters hung (or is it hang?) in the balance. I knew Harriman would live and kept thinking how Chakotay met an Admiral Sulu, but at any point before Enterprise arrived in Demora's universe, the lives of Captains Sulu were threatened. I wondered, could this be the novel were Hikaru Sulu, TOS main character, dies? He didn't have to to make the novel worthwhile but I love those moments when it feels like anything could happen.

We knew that Enterprise wouldn't be lost in 2319 because Garrett ponders the 1701-B's loss in 2328 in Well of Souls (or was it in The Art of the Impossible?)

Concerning the registry of starships: I'm surprised by Christopher's info that nostalgic registry numbers are impractical. I hadn't thought of it that way. Maybe it is impractical to us Humans but is a (common) alien influence on Starfleet? We know Klingons, Andorians and Ferengi also use registry numbers (from CCG and The Tears of Eridanus). Moreover, we got USS Relativity NCV-474439-G from canon, and (weirdly) USS Nash NCC-2010-5. Reusing registry numbers would explain some unusual numbers, like USS Constellation's NCC-1017, which precedes Constitution's NCC-1700 - maybe there was an earlier NCC-1017 and the registry just got reused?

Btw, in a timeline where the Borg weren't wiped out in 2381 (namely, the STO timeline), we have a ship in service in 2409 called USS Excelsior NCC-2000-D.

This book is also a treasure trove for Memory Beta. There are numerous ship names and registries given, including shuttlecraft (even three with registry number!), and we get references to the Larson-class, as well as two named shuttlecraft types, Class H and Gagarin-class!

Before I get to technical, the character work was superb. I liked all the characters and their interactions, regardless of whether they were from canon or litverse only. A good example is Linojj's reminiscing about her past, which effortlessly teaches us more about Boslic history and her character, all in one go!

 

[rfmcdpei]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

What happened to the Rejarrians remained unsettled. I think that the Rejarrians and the arachnoids had different biologies.

Regarding the star Odyssey, Demora Sulu would have known where the star was in relation to her last location in her native universe--its direction, its distance. She would have been able to apply the same factors in relation to the world in her new universe.

 

[Markonian]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

Regarding the star Odyssey, Demora Sulu would have known where the star was in relation to her last location in her native universe--its direction, its distance. She would have been able to apply the same factors in relation to the world in her new universe.

But Sulu's planet was totally different from Rejarris II, as was the system from the Rejarris system. None of the visible stars matched any other stars. Even if Odyssey is the one constant star in the multiverse, how could you find it if you don't even know whether Sulu's planet and Rejarris II occupy the same spatial location?

I can't make head or tails of it. So the various universes share the same physical laws (suns, planets, etc.), but all the stars are different in each universe? It could only make sense to me if the portal was not interdimensional but intergalactic, that also applying to Odyssey. Different galaxies would explain the similarities between the "universes" and the different star patterns.

Also, if interdimensional identification is bassed on stellar cartography, the Enterprise crew is lucky they didn't end up in any of the mirror universes, or any other similar universes to the left and right of ours.

 

[The Wormhole]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

1) I gather the arachnoids weren't the Rejarrians, or their descendants? So, what happened to them? Did the portal bring them somewhere else and had reset to a different location by the time Excelsior arrived?

I assumed they were a native life form of the planet and didn't give the matter much more thought.

2) If the stars and location were completely unknown, how could Harriman find Odyssey in the unknown starscape?

Yeah, that was something I had problems with. There's a very good probability that the Odyssey star should have been on the other end of the galaxy or even universe. Sure is lucky it was just a relatively brief warp trip away.

We knew that Enterprise wouldn't be lost in 2319 because Garrett ponders the 1701-B's loss in 2328 in Well of Souls (or was it in The Art of the Impossible?)

You know, I've read both books, but I don't remember that. Yet, Memory Beta confirms the Enterprise B is mentioned in both of them. Well, it has been over a decade.

 

[Christopher]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

I can't make head or tails of it. So the various universes share the same physical laws (suns, planets, etc.), but all the stars are different in each universe? It could only make sense to me if the portal was not interdimensional but intergalactic, that also applying to Odyssey.

Actually it makes perfect sense, if we're talking about a literal other universe rather than just an alternate timeline of our universe. I mean, another universe would just be a different place. Different planets in our universe are shaped by the same physics that shaped Earth, but a habitable exoplanet around another star would not duplicate Earth's continents and rivers and mountains. Just like individual humans have different faces and voices shaped by the same laws of genetics and anatomical development, so different planets or star systems or galaxies of the same type would have individual differences due to variations in how the common physical laws manifest, and so would different universes. The only way they'd replicate the same stars and planets and species is if they're different timelines of our universe, diverging from a common history and origin -- which is a separate thing entirely from different universes, although fiction tends to confuse the issue by using the terms interchangeably.

I haven't read the book yet, but if it is a different universe in the literal sense, then having a duplicate star is hard to explain in that context.

 

[Enterprise1701]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

I'm confused. Y'all are meaning that One Constant Star deals with a pocket dimension situation (like the Q Continuum or Elysia), correct? Not a parallel quantum reality (like "Mirror, Mirror" or "Parallels")?

 

[Markonian]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

Thanks, Christopher! Now I understand. Odyssey could easily exist in several universes even if they aren't just parallel timelines, by hand-waving it with its special properties.

 

[Corran Horn]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

Diverting the topic towards One Constant Star...

It was a slow start but I kept on it for the final 40%, finishing it in two sittings. It's a strong book, almost great - except for the open questions. Good thing we have a thread to seek their answers!

1) I gather the arachnoids weren't the Rejarrians, or their descendants? So, what happened to them? Did the portal bring them somewhere else and had reset to a different location by the time Excelsior arrived?

Now that would've been something. As it was we never find out.

2) If the stars and location were completely unknown, how could Harriman find Odyssey in the unknown starscape?

I wondered the same thing myself.

 

[JD]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

When it comes to Kirk55555, he's been doing this kind of stuff over sci-fi/fantasy forum for ages. I've seen people over there argue with him like this for like a week, and make no progress whatsoever.

 

[kirk55555]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

When it comes to Kirk55555, he's been doing this kind of stuff over sci-fi/fantasy forum for ages. I've seen people over there argue with him like this for like a week, and make no progress whatsoever.

Trekbbs: Toe the line and agree with the majority, or else! Borg were more open to different points of view than some people around here I never wanted to start an argument about anything. That said, its my opinion and I'm allowed to have it. I would have said my piece and left it at that, but people trying to invalidate my personal opinions make me stay to defend them. I have every right to hate certain stories, and to get information about stories from online sources. As a non Star trek example example, I don't need to read Twilight (the vampire book, not the DS9 book) to know I'd hate it, and the same goes for Serpents.

I don't like "Starfleet officer does completely evil act because they think its for the best" stories a lot of the time, at least when the character is supposed to be the "hero". If its just evil SF Officers like Cartwright's group in ST VI, it's fine. But with heroes in Star Trek, Sisko is the only one who ever had that kind of story and had it come out great and actually fit with his character. Like I've said many times, that kind of story usually feels like a Section 31 story, and I despise Section 31.

Having a Section 31 type story starring a character I disliked on screen is a story tailor made for me to despise. I'm not saying anyone else can't like that,its just something that hits all the wrong buttons for me. Well, not all of them, it could probably have been worse (it could have also involved Gary Seven and a time and/or dimension traveling USS Titan) but its just a kind of story I hate, and repeatedly calling it awesome in no way changes what I think about it, or makes my opinion invalid.

So after reading a few of his books and enjoying them, you've now decided to "seriously question his writing ability" thanks to testimonials by other readers about how good another one of his books is, one that you haven't read?

The mind boggles, my friend.

Well if he wrote one book like that, he's likely to do more. It's probably more accurate to say that I seriously question his ability to write anything that isn't a DS9 book. Between hearing about Serpents, and reading the completely average Allegiance in exile, it seems like his DS9 books are what I should stick to. Then again, I thought he did Demora Sulu well in One Constant Star. (which, again, I did like). Still, I think I'll probably just skip any non DS9 book he wrote from this point. Some writers don't do well in some settings. The Lost Era doesn't seem to get many books anyway, so hopefully there won't even be any more Lost Era books to avoid.

 

[trampledamage]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

Okay, I think that's enough discussion on the whys and wherefores of kirk55555's decision to not like Harrimann and the books he's in.

Leave it alone now please.

 

[BillJ]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

Daughter got me a Kindle gift card for Father's Day, so I picked this one up. Not sure when I'll get to read it though.

 

[OverlordSpock]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

I enjoyed the book, but it definitely didn't reach the levels of Serpents. But, it wasn't likely to anyway, so I'm not really disappointed.

This was definitely a character piece: very little overarching action, no universe-shattering threat, just a story focused on a ship and its crew. I very much liked it for that.

I did have some of the same problems others have already mentioned, but the one that bugged me the most was how they were able to find Odyssey in the other universe. The book goes out of its way to point out that nothing matched the Milky Way, so I simply can't fathom how Harriman found the star.

I was disappointed that we didn't find out what became of the inhabitants of Rejarris II. For quite a while, I thought that the deadly creatures were distant descendants of them (regressed yet evolved over a great amount of time), but, by the time I finished the book, I no longer thought that. I will say that in the real world there are mysteries that simply don't get solved, so it's not a stretch that we don't figure out what actually happened to them.

All in all, it was good and enjoyable. But, with some of the problems, it didn't excel. That said, I LOVED going back to the Lost Era and specifically to the Enterprise-B. I desperately want more stories about Demora and her crew as well as Harriman. As well, I agree with whomever said upthread that we now need a sequel to Well of Souls.

More Lost Era please!

 

[Markonian]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

Is it possible DRGIII left aspects deliberately unexplained to setup a sneaky sequel? We had that with The Rough Beasts of Empire and his DS9 duology.

 

[Thrawn]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

Is it possible DRGIII left aspects deliberately unexplained to setup a sneaky sequel? We had that with The Rough Beasts of Empire and his DS9 duology.

After that experience, there's a piece of me that is just basically assuming that constantly. That there's some huge master plan that's gonna play out over his books over the next like decade or something.

But regardless: reading this on its own was pretty weak.

 

[Masiral]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

Is it possible DRGIII left aspects deliberately unexplained to setup a sneaky sequel? We had that with The Rough Beasts of Empire and his DS9 duology.

But Rough Beasts felt like it was setting something up, a new character arc for Sisko. This doesn't feel the same.

 

[Corran Horn]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

I felt it was probably more realistic that they wouldn't find out what happened.

Heck, the whole endeavor cost two starships so maybe just leave this one alone, Starfleet.

 

[Thrawn]

Re: LE: One Constant Star by David R. George III Review Thread (Spoile

I felt it was probably more realistic that they wouldn't find out what happened.

Heck, the whole endeavor cost two starships so maybe just leave this one alone, Starfleet.

That's valid, but it felt more like the whole narrative forgot about the mystery entirely. I wouldn't have minded as much if we'd had a "well I guess that'll just have to stay a mystery" conversation between anyone at the end.