"Lazy Writing"

[plynch]

But Enemy Within addresses human nature, and whether we need our "bad side." The writing (actual words) is very good in spots. It is far better than a typical "ship in dnager; ship out of danger thanks to some invented technobabble pulse/beam whatever." Boring. One of the David Gerrold books dissects TOS episodes for drama and laziness. He contends that good drama focuses on decisions and often deals with grey areas, if I remember right. Everything is not to be wrapped up neatly.

BTW I hate it when in post-Coon TOS a very dramatic episode ends with a chuckle scene on the bridge. I think Doomsday Machine ends that way. Not "lazy," but certainly cheapens the preceding affairs.

 

[Myasishchev]

But Enemy Within addresses human nature, and whether we need our "bad side." The writing (actual words) is very good in spots. It is far better than a typical "ship in dnager; ship out of danger thanks to some invented technobabble pulse/beam whatever." Boring. One of the David Gerrold books dissects TOS episodes for drama and laziness. He contends that good drama focuses on decisions and often deals with grey areas, if I remember right. Everything is not to be wrapped up neatly.

BTW I hate it when in post-Coon TOS a very dramatic episode ends with a chuckle scene on the bridge. I think Doomsday Machine ends that way. Not "lazy," but certainly cheapens the preceding affairs.

Well, your mileage may vary on Enemy Within.

It's funny that you mention the weird humorous scenes at the end of TOS eps, because I actually just started a thread on TOS' inappropriate fades in the TOS subforum.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Some obvious examples of lazy writing-

Last-minute technobabble saves in lieu of characters thinking their way out of a problem.

Characters being made to be stupid or forget things they should know, solely for the convenience of the plot.

Use of well-known cliches (such as the virtual reality scenario that the characters escape - only to realize they are still in the VR scenario! OMG!)

 

[The Borg Queen]

"Lazy writing" is any time they Did Not Do The Research.

Especially, any time a character is carrying the Idiot Ball it's an example of lazy writing.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

A sampling of NOT.LAZY. writing (IMHO)

TOS
Balance of Terror: Basic story -- a battle of wits between two cunning captains. Toss in unprovoked attacks, xenophobic bigotry, constraints on the crew's choices (stay out of the RNZ) and keep everybody consistent. Writer pulled it off, which is why BoT lands on so many fans' "favorites" lists.

Lifting the story and characters directly from "The Enemy Below" was a bit, uh...lazy, to put it politely.

 

[hellsgate]

I think what the "Lazy Writing" means, is the writer doesn't bother to make the scene seem the slightest bit feasible or exercise self-control.

Example:

The Federation ship's being thrashed to ribbons by an enemy vessel, yet there are few if any consequences.

• The "Red Alert" klaxons still work, even if you're three seconds from a hull breach. EVERY single bioneural gelpack, ODN / EPS conduit is infallibly intact, & the matter reclamation system ~isn't~ spewing crap everywhere & people aren't sliding around in it from being in the wrong place at EXACTLY the wrong time. Nothing computer-related shorts out & perpetuates a "Domino Effect" of further damage to the ship internally from drinking-water / bathwater, and unrecycled shit, among other substances in the labs seeping in everywhere.
  
• The shuttles and escape pods are 100% always available, never blown to crap as one of the first targets of an enemy, no-one's cowardly attempt at survival has forced anyone to steal the last one. We never see one significantly reduced in speed from shrapnel-damage (from pieces of the mothership flying at it,) see one altogether shorting-out and/or blowing-up from electronics failure, environmental containment/external pressure problems, etc.
  
• No-one gets sucked out through a hull-collapse via catastrophic decompression as a result of a torpedo impact or collision.
  
• Or, gravity FUBARS attempts to get things back on-track anywhere on the damaged ship, as a result of battle-damage 'wear-and-tear' from repeated exposure to Klingon/Romulan disruptors.
  
• There's no realistically explicit depictions of someone getting accidentally or intentionally splattered with someone else's entrails from being a tad too close to a victim being disemboweled by a Bat'leth or other 'manual' weapon.
  
• No-one's hand-phaser / phaser-rifle power cell runs dry, just as someone's down to the last jerk-off you need to nail before you're home-free.
  
• You don't see the Fleet'er getting his butt nailed to the wall by a Klingon two to three times his size. The Federation's martial arts course is THAT good & the Fleet'er always knows & makes PERFECT contact with the alien's "balls" or whatever cheap-shot works from species to species.
  
• There's never a reason to expect a dead (or very near-dead,) battery in a P.A.D.D. & see it just blink off, when you try to override & resume control of a ship with a destroyed bridge and/or battle bridge.
  
• And the Captain NEVER NEVER NEVER has a "bad hair day from hell" wherein he or she just can't seem to be able to catch a break that one tragic day.

 

[NXOner]

Lazy writing? Look no further than TATV ....

Terra Prime on the other hand - cracking episode !

 

[Crazy Eddie]

please give me an example of a quintissentially "Not Lazy"
Star Trek episode.

In order of non-Laziness

The Corbomite Maneuver
Lessons
The Inner Light
The Maquis Pt-I and II
For The Cause
By The Pale Moonlight
Nemesis
Dead Stop

 

[Crazy Eddie]

"Lazy writing" is any time they Did Not Do The Research.

Especially, any time a character is carrying the Idiot Ball it's an example of lazy writing.

Trek doesn't have many idiot-ball situations IMO, but Voyager does have painful overuse of the Hero/Villain Ball where Janeway is concerned.

Kim <as ship rocks from impact>: "Captain, a group of inexplicably xenophobic hostile aliens are shooting at us for no particular reason!"
Janeway: "Hail those ships! Tell them we mean no harm!"
Kim: <presses button and replies 0.68 seconds later>: "No response!"
Janeway: "Target their weapons systems!"
<Phasers fire. Alien weapons go down with the very first hit>
Kim: "They're either hailing us or they're moving away now... either way, the space battle scene is over."
Janeway: "Great. Let's cut to the next scene and get this show on the road."

 

[Ptrope]

ENT's "The Andorian Incident"

• Lazy writing: Vulcans are spying on Andorians - boo-hoo! Established in teaser, 100% confirmed in denouement, after vault door is found behind a frikkin' tapestry. Archer hands over sensitive security info to Earth's only real ally's greatest enemy right in front of that ally - without verifying anything! Just to continue that his character dislikes Vulcans and has no personal discipline.

• Stronger writing: Andorians break into monastery and accuse Vulcans of spying on them. To T'Pol's surprise, and even to that of the monks, an underground deep-space listening post is found (we'll skip the lenghty explanation how this would be impractical as hell due to planetary rotation!), and Andorians' paranoia is further agitated by discovery that Vulcans, to whom the Andies already have an inferiority complex, have actually been using the information they've gleaned to protect Andor from the threat of a third party (maybe the Klingons, maybe the Romulans), because it is also in their own self-interest to do so. One interesting fact, possibly not known at the time but deduced later by T'Pol, is that the listening post was actually better positioned to spy on Earth than on Andoria - she could've revealed this to Archer, but it would've been better if this had been her own personal epiphany.

This ep was chock-full of lazy bits, but it's glaringly simplistic in its setup and conclusion. With just a bit of creativity and real plot development, they could've further detailed the strained relationship between Vulcan and Andor, played upon the Andorians' paranoia better, shown the Vulcans to be almost ruthlessly logical instead of simply conniving, and given Archer a new perspective on the alien species he has to deal with regularly. Instead, we got a paint-by-numbers, contrived story loaded with olfactory jokes.

That's lazy writing.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

please give me an example of a quintissentially "Not Lazy" Star Trek episode.

A good way to tell, if (like most of us), you've watched a fair amount of TV and can recognize the overused plotlines and plot twists: if the story still manages to surprise you without seeming illogical or like the writers are just pulling random stuff out of their ass.

Best example of a Trek episode like that: In the Pale Moonlight.

 

[QuasarVM]

"Lazy Writing"

This is a phrase thrown around that has been used to describe basically anything that a Trek fan finds objectionable in a Trek series that they seem to not like in the first place.

I see the words "lazy writing" used a lot in criticizing ENT and VOY by people who seem to think they know that it means. Well, I don't.

Rather than ask for a definition, because I know that would differ from one person to the next, please give me an example of a quintissentially "Not Lazy"
Star Trek episode.

It can be from any series or film, and describe why it isn't lazy without bashing any of the shows please.

Be seeing you.

Brannon is that YOU??

If so, dude...you are ONE...LAZY...Trek writer!

Just kidding Brannon. Not everything you wrote was lame.

 

[QuasarVM]

please give me an example of a quintissentially "Not Lazy"
Star Trek episode.

In order of non-Laziness

The Corbomite Maneuver
Lessons
The Inner Light
The Maquis Pt-I and II
For The Cause
By The Pale Moonlight
Nemesis
Dead Stop

I thought Ethics and The Loss were pretty lazy. Worf gets a back-ectomy and Troi loses her mojo...

Shades of Gray was also lazy although I can forgive them for that since they were in the middle of a writers strike when ALL the writers were being lazy.

Tell me that's not lazy.

 

[QuasarVM]

A sampling of NOT.LAZY. writing (IMHO)

TOS
Balance of Terror: Basic story -- a battle of wits between two cunning captains. Toss in unprovoked attacks, xenophobic bigotry, constraints on the crew's choices (stay out of the RNZ) and keep everybody consistent. Writer pulled it off, which is why BoT lands on so many fans' "favorites" lists.

Lifting the story and characters directly from "The Enemy Below" was a bit, uh...lazy, to put it politely.

It might have been lazy, but it was GOOD -- which goes a long ways toward forgiving the sin of laziness, grasshoppah.

 

[kent]

example one: the end of "year of hell" in voyager. Voayger ramming the ship conveniently (of course) resets the timeline.

example two: voyager should've been a little more run down if the show's premise is they are temporarily trapped in the delta quadrant without starfleet support. maybe not equinox run down, but definately not so pristine.

exaample three: the episode "Time's Arrow". Mark Twain/Samuel Clemmens comes on board the Enterprise and Riker throws a hissy about how the timeline now records twain vanishing, losing "one of the greates literary minds of hte 19th century.". Ummm, check the computer and see if the records still show him existing in the 19th century as normal...that should tell you if he goes back or not.

example four: NX-01: phase cannons, photonic torpedo's, akiraprise.

example five: voyager initial scare of only 38 torpedo's that miraculously doesn't matter any more.

example six: the Doctor tries to cure Kes's backwards in time aging problem with ANTIPROTONS?? Wouldn't that kill her??

example seven: "threshold"

example eight: in all series, the seemingly easy task of connecting alien computers with each other without a concern for different technologies, virus', firewalls, or some 24th century equivilant.

example ninie: the incredibly annoying need to explain something, the pitcher plant organism in the delta quadrant for example, then simplify it with a metaphoric comparison. WE GET IT! The massive organism uses telepathy to attain, passify, then eat and digest starships!! We don't need the pitcher plant euphamism. Christ. We're not stupid.


there are plenty more from all series, voyager i've just watched recently so it's the freshest on my mind.

 

[Aquehonga]

"Lazy writing":

*Every single civilization having transporters, even those in the far reaches of Trek's Milky Way.

Re: ENT, it should've been transporter free.

* Virtually every Trek species come from planets where everyone's the same nationality, race, language, culture, creed, & even religion, if/when religion comes up.

Gimme a froggin' break.

* Many Trek characters, not all, aren't believable, real people at all. They lack depth, dimension.

Most of them are unbuyable in the Believability Dept.

* Episodes like TNG's "Force of Nature". ST's make-believe! They can travel at Warp 100 if they have to.

DS9's MU episodes, in varying ways, like a scale. That unflushed toilet, "The Emperor's New Bloke", may be all of Trek's worst episode ever.

In "Crossover" MU Kira assumes & happens to be 100% right in her assumption, the truth about Our Side's Kira & Bashir. No subtlety.

STPTB&B should've had the Intendant guessing our Kira's origin: surgically altered spy, android, hologram, a clone, Odo effing around, a transporter duplicate, from any one of the other infinite alternate/parallel universes there are, & I don't mean ours.

Later in the episode have Garak do a quantum signature scan of our Kira & Bashir.

* Shifting "borders of convenience" regarding Trek's interstellar nations.

* Things usually being "too easy" to solve & get out of.

* Not taking more chances.

*?

I'm pooped

 

[The Boy Who Cried Worf]

The Corbomite Maneuver is the classic example of non-lazy writing. The ship was powerless to overcome the enemy by technical means so they had to come up with an actual plot device. A dramatic situation in which someone can think their way out of a crisis. This is what we never got on Voyager.

 

[Myasishchev]

If anyone really wanted to know what lazy writing looks like, after last night, they know.

The Corbomite Maneuver is the classic example of non-lazy writing. The ship was powerless to overcome the enemy by technical means so they had to come up with an actual plot device. A dramatic situation in which someone can think their way out of a crisis. This is what we never got on Voyager.

Indeed, on Voyager, the corbomite would've been real (even if isospectral tricorbomite), and they'd have blown up the Fesarius with it.

 

[Klaitu]

I don't think they're lazy. I think the writers are a bunch of intellectuals who sit in the same office pumping out 20 stories per season for 20 years.

Eventually, they just run out of ideas. It would happen to anyone.