Latecomer To This: JANEWAY DIED?!?

[captcalhoun]

Re: Catering to the Janeway Fans?

And Gorf, I do see your point.

But, for instance, I never bought the Voyager relaunch novels before, because I didn't much like Golden and hadn't heard great things. But the death of Janeway and the new direction for the relaunch grabbed me instantly, so much so that I even went back and bought Golden's books to be ready for Full Circle.

Anecdotal evidence admittedly means dick-all when it comes to discussing sales, but I just mean it isn't a one way road. This decision may well have increased sales, despite the decision you disagree with.

Absolutely a posibility and that's fine with me. I wish them luck and I also acknowledge that Voyager is not only about Janeway, and Janeway is not for everybody. I just happen to think she's an important part of it.

But I'm not a hardcore Star Trek fan and what will happen will happen, but I still think they missed the boat years ago when they didn't publish more Voyager books after the show ended.

Again I'm not arguing whether killing Janeway was right or wrong (as some of you seem to think). I happen to think it was wrong, but I also happen to think they sidelined both her and the rest of the Voyager cast years ago.

I opened this thread to voice the opinion that there might be other stories to tell (and sales to earn) about Voyager and its captain/crew.

Sales might or might not descrease/increase, but it's a fact that Pocket Book has disregarded the Janeway/Voyager fans for years (at least in my opinion), and I'm pretty darn sure they have lost readers over the years due to that fact - plenty of readers.

Their choice, their loss, I know, and many of you might celebrate the fact, but as an editor/publisher I would still find it sad to lose readers.

One storyline shouldnt exclude another. Keep your dead Janeway and let us get a Janeway still in the Delta Quadrant. Then we might all be happy and buying books again.

sadly, the VGR post-finale novels were sidelined not through malice, but through using a single author and then not using more authors when said author was too busy doing other books to do VGR stuff. it seems more like incompetence to me, than malice.

 

[Thrawn]

Re: Catering to the Janeway Fans?

One storyline shouldnt exclude another. Keep your dead Janeway and let us get a Janeway still in the Delta Quadrant. Then we might all be happy and buying books again.

In 2005/6, a huge trilogy was published that took place during the run of the Voyager series. So actually, they ARE doing that

 

[Semah]

Re: Catering to the Janeway Fans?

@Semah - love the drawing.

I can't take credit for it, it's from http://xkcd.com/ a webcomic, which everyone should read.

 

[Thrawn]

Whoa, thread merge.

 

[captcalhoun]

and don't forget Places of Exile last year which saw Janeway at her best forging a Delta Quadrant Federation in an alt universe in which they never made it home.

if she'd been written more like PoE on the show, i would've liked her more...

 

[Thrawn]

and don't forget Places of Exile last year which saw Janeway at her best forging a Delta Quadrant Federation in an alt universe in which they never made it home.

if she'd been written more like PoE on the show, i would've liked her more...

No kidding. As I just posted in another thread, that's one of my favorite Trek stories of all time, and it had Janeway's character down to perfection.

 

[Defcon]

Re: Catering to the Janeway Fans?

I happen to think it was wrong, but I also happen to think they sidelined both her and the rest of the Voyager cast years ago.

Which was more or less the result of circumstances. John Ordover, who originally was editing the "Relaunch" created the series as a one-author-series and hired Golden because of her Voyager track record. And if what has been posted is correct the line (or at least the first duology) was relatively successful.

But then Ordover left, Golden was caught up in other projects and the Voyager Relaunch came to a halt, being in a kind of editorial and authorial limbo, waiting for Golden to return for a (too) long time before deciding to open the series up to other authors.

Voyager gets two books this year, so it seems it is back on track, though.

 

[DimesDan]

Re: Catering to the Janeway Fans?

You know, at this point, I wonder why we keep discussing - no, bickering, really - on this, since we're clearly divided on the issue into the 'bring her back' and 'let her stay dead' camps. Can we just agree to disagree and leave these topics alone already?

awww, always nice to see a fellow fan of xkcd

 

[Gorf]

Re: Catering to the Janeway Fans?

sadly, the VGR post-finale novels were sidelined not through malice, but through using a single author and then not using more authors when said author was too busy doing other books to do VGR stuff. it seems more like incompetence to me, than malice.

I never used the word malice, but you're probably right in that it wasn't malice - it was simply incompetence to use your word, but why not fix that later instead of making it worse?

As I said they missed the boat, but they could build a new boat - IF they wanted to.

Especially considering all these debates. I mean look at it - even I have come out of my shell and might actually buy a book if they cared to write one. However, it would have to be Voyager and not part of another show.

Oh and not some 'seven saves the day' book either. We've had enough of that.

I do not remember the 2005/2006 books, but I remember a lot of talk a few years ago about a couple of books. Unfortunately, they did not catch my attention so can't say more on that subject. Sorry.

 

[Gorf]

Whoa, thread merge.

Ahh...being new here...how did that happen and how do i move my replies...I thought I was somewhere else.

Sorry.

 

[Thrawn]

Re: Catering to the Janeway Fans?

I do not remember the 2005/2006 books, but I remember a lot of talk a few years ago about a couple of books. Unfortunately, they did not catch my attention so can't say more on that subject. Sorry.

So they did exactly what you asked for, and you're still complaining because you didn't notice?!

 

[Thrawn]

Whoa, thread merge.

Ahh...being new here...how did that happen and how do i move my replies...I thought I was somewhere else.

Sorry.

You don't have to. Where once your thread and the Latecomer thread were separate, now they're merged, so they're both under the Latecomer heading. Every post in that thread is now in this one. Just keep the conversation going here.

 

[Defcon]

Whoa, thread merge.

Ahh...being new here...how did that happen and how do i move my replies...I thought I was somewhere else.

Sorry.

When there are two (or more) topics dealing with the same topic, sometimes the mods (Lightning Storm or Rosalind for TrekLit) decide to merge the threads into one.

So basically your thread has been integrated into another one already running. There is nothing you have to do (or can do for that matter).

 

[Steve Roby]

Re: Catering to the Janeway Fans?

I do not remember the 2005/2006 books, but I remember a lot of talk a few years ago about a couple of books. Unfortunately, they did not catch my attention so can't say more on that subject. Sorry.

So they did exactly what you asked for, and you're still complaining because you didn't notice?!

Dang. Beat me to it.

 

[Gorf]

Re: Catering to the Janeway Fans?

I do not remember the 2005/2006 books, but I remember a lot of talk a few years ago about a couple of books. Unfortunately, they did not catch my attention so can't say more on that subject. Sorry.

So they did exactly what you asked for, and you're still complaining because you didn't notice?!

I'm sorry, but I never said they did what I asked for.

I asked for a Voyager book with a plot that would get me interested in the book. I mentioned earlier that I was member of another community and that I have heard about books over the years, but that they never seemed interesting - never said I didn't check them out on Amazon or the like. I think it's a bit too optimistic to say that 'I got what I asked for', but let's leave it at that.

And damn...I opened a new thread for a reason. I wanted a different tone or I tried to obtain a different tone and debate, but guess that's not going to happen if my thread now has the subject 'Janeway died!!'

Oh well...if there's nothing I can do, there's nothing I can do. Just a shame.

 

[Thrawn]

It was a Voyager book that took place during the series that was in no way a "Seven saves the day" cop-out. That's all you've asked for specifically in the thread so far; my apologies for not realizing you had other conditions.

But seriously, if you're looking for a rippingly good Voyager yarn that takes place during the series, check it out. It's called String Theory, and it's pretty great. You might not like the last book much, since Janeway's in a coma for most of it, but the other two will be right up your alley. The whole trilogy basically combines every single major Voyager plot except the Borg, so if you liked any particular episode of the series, you should be pretty happy with it.

 

[Defcon]

Re: Catering to the Janeway Fans?

And damn...I opened a new thread for a reason. I wanted a different tone or I tried to obtain a different tone and debate, but guess that's not going to happen if my thread now has the subject 'Janeway died!!'

Oh well...if there's nothing I can do, there's nothing I can do. Just a shame.

I could be wrong, but the fact that the merged thread has the other threads name is a result of that thread being the one posted first.

 

[Lynx]

For the record, Lynx, every regular that isn't Janeway will have an important arc in Full Circle; Beyer has said as much. It is not just about Chakotay's crew; everyone else will feature in the story.

And, actually, Janeway will too. She's in two whole YEARS worth of story. It's not like Beyer is ignoring anyone.


Now, once more into the breach. Sigh.

Picard was humiliated in Chain Of Command. Seven was humiliated in the episode about the Omega molecule. Kim was humiliated about 17 times in the first season of Voyager alone. Worf was humiliated when he saved his wife instead of completing a mission in DS9. Janeway was humiliated when her ship was taken over by Kazon.

Were all of those stories written by people that hated those characters? Absolutely not.

Q ridiculed Picard on a regular basis. Seska ridiculed Chakotay on a regular basis. The Doctor had to stand up to a complete mockery of Voyager in the episode taking place in the future, about the historical recreation of Voyager's "attacks". The list goes on here, as well.

Were those stories written by people that were not "true fans"? Absolutely not.

Nimoy only agreed to return to Star Trek based on his death scene in TWOK. Brent Spiner wrote the story in which he died in Nemesis. And, from other fandoms, I could give you a half dozen examples of similar scenarios.

Were the actors that played the characters themselves somehow part of a conspiracy to destroy the fans of those same characters? You'd be a complete flaming moron to think so.


So, once again, I return to a simple point. Undebatable. Fact.

Humiliating, mocking, or killing off a character in no way disrespects that character or the fans of that character, as long as the story is a good one.

Is this story a good one? NO ONE KNOWS; we haven't READ it yet.

But the next time you say that the people making this decision were "cold-hearted", or "didn't care", or "hated Janeway", or "disrespected the fans", or "annihilated a beloved character on a whim", or anything of the sort, it will be nothing but pure, 100% mean-spirited-ness.

You know I respect your opinion. You know I'm interested in your perspective. You know I'm not holding a grudge of any kind. And so you know I'm not just saying this because I disagree with you.

So I apologize if I hurt your feelings, but it's true - you are simply being mean. And, no matter how much you may think so, the people that made this decision were NOT being mean, they were trying to tell the best story they could. There is a difference between disagreement over a creative decision and personal attacks. And you need to stop with the latter. You're driving people away.

Kirsten Beyer is every bit as much a fan of Voyager as you are. I daresay perhaps even moreso. And if you are incapable of seeing that, your posts don't deserve the attention of a single other fan on this board or anywhere else.

As for the other main characters present in the book, I'm not interested in any morgue among the remaining characters. As I see it, all what was magic with Voyager is ruined and destroyed by the "annihilation" of Janeway and the upcoming "official" Voyager stories are not interesting anymore.

As for the characters you're mentioning as being humiliated, tortured or whatsoever, most of them were restored back to normal. That's a significant difference from killing off the characters and ruining future books forever for those who are fans of that particular character.

As for the actions by certain actors, I'm sure that some of them have an affection for the characters. But not all. The same for their view of the fans as well. And no, I'm not a moron, just a very dissapointed fan.

As for the fandom among certain authors and editors, if they are fans as they and you state, they do have a very peculiar way of showing it.

Well, except the last time she appeared in a book Marco edited, you actually liked how they treated her, but let's let that slide.

No, Kes and Neelix probably won't be in this book; I misspoke (misposted? whatever).

As for Kes, if you're referring to the "String Theory" books, I did like how the destruction to the character made in that crap episode "Fury" was somewhat corrected by stating that the pathetic creature in that episode wasn't the real Kes but a creation of her own anger while fighting a rouge Nacene.

But there were also a lot of it which wasn't exactly to my taste and it didn't bring her back as a main character either.

Which might be as good because there's always the risk for further character destruction in upcoming books if she had been brought back as a main character. The more main characters who are left out of the relaunch as it is intented to be, the happier I am.

 

[Thrawn]

They do NOT have a peculiar way of showing it. They have a DIFFERENT way of showing it than YOU. That is not a bad thing, just a different thing.

And if you can't understand that, this conversation is worthless.

 

[Gorf]

Re: Catering to the Janeway Fans?

I could be wrong, but the fact that the merged thread has the other threads name is a result of that thread being the one posted first.

Got it - thanks. I was just hoping to open something a bit less 'kill Janeway' vs. 'don't kill Janeway'. Silly me, I know.