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Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!)

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Smiley

Rear Admiral
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If you didn't read the subject line carefully, I'll say it again. This topic will contain MAJOR SPOILERS for Last Full Measure. Those who don't want to know plot details should see the thread titled "Last Full Measure." Properly warned ye be, says I.









Let's get the obvious out of the way first. Trip is "NOT. DEAD." How he survived and why he needed to have history consider him dead are still open questions. I'm sure Margaret and the authors will come up with brilliant answers sometime during the Relaunch. I'm glad to see that Trip is alive, but I'm also worried about the way his life will change after his supposed death.

The epilogue featured some nice TOS references. I'm not sure what the whole George/Sam thing was about, but I'm guessing it clears up some continuity error. It was cool to see little Jimmy Kirk, but the real question for me is whether or not Trip ever met Scotty.

The trouble with third-season stories is that the heroes can't have too much real success without causing logic problems with the televised episodes. While the solution of making the whole mission of Last Full Measure a decoy set up by the Xindi Council was inventive, I still find the concept a little implausible. If the Xindi are able to keep such close tabs on Enterprise, would it be that difficult to set up an ambush to destroy the ship?

Was it covered in the novelization of "The Expanse"/"The Xindi" why the Xindi attacked Earth with the prototype weapon instead of just completing it and striking in force? The Council scenes in LFM indicated that the Xindi were paranoid about humans finding either their world or their weapon, so it seems illogical that they would make their presence known sooner than necessary.

I take extreme issue with Gutierrez's desire to die blowing up the Xindi facility. She showed no concern for the welfare of her unborn child when she volunteered to sacrifice herself. I don't expect the characters to be perfect, but that sort of disregard for life is disgusting to me.

It may seem that there is a lot I don't like about LFM, but most of those are not entirely in the control of the authors. Anyway, let's move on to the positive side.

The core of the story is about the squids (Starfleet) and sharks (MACOs) learning to put aside their differences and work together. The dynamics explored between these characters made the book successful and worth the time and money spent. In particular, the Mayweather/Chang relationship evolved in an intriguing and wonderful way.

It's so nice to see different sides of Mayweather than we saw on the show. Contrary to expectations, Mayweather was actually the most prominent character in the book with Trip reduced to dreaming of Elizabeth within the main storyline. All of the regulars had some good character moments in LFM. Reed's near-murder during his childhood was one of the standout scenes of the book. I hope we can see him in a Section 31 novel sometime, but I digress.

The missions were very true to the style of early Season 3. While some characters were untouchable, such as Archer and Reed, the presence of "redshirts" in each group lent some excitement to the proceedings.

The funeral and grieving scenes were both touching and respectful. It was tragic that it took combat and death to bring the two groups closer together. While the delaying of the Xindi was more important to Earth, the newfound connections between those on Enterprise were the greater victory.

My favorite bit of humor was the name of Trahve's ship. I wonder how many people get it before Hayes gives it away in a later chapter.

LFM is a quick but interesting read, and I would rate it a 7.5/10. If you're an Enterprise fan, though, it's a must-have, especially since the next story won't be out for some time.

Let the discussion/debating begin!
 
Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

Smiley said:
The epilogue featured some nice TOS references. I'm not sure what the whole George/Sam thing was about, but I'm guessing it clears up some continuity error.
Actually, it's in reference to the classic series episode "What Are Little Girls Made Of?", where we're informed that Jim Kirk's brother is named George Samuel Kirk, but only Jim calls him "Sam." (Also, the depiction of the Kirk family in the pro/epilogue is consistent with Diane Carey's depiction in Final Frontier and Best Destiny.)
If the Xindi are able to keep such close tabs on Enterprise, would it be that difficult to set up an ambush to destroy the ship?
Surely that's a problem of the TV show, though, going at least as far back as "Rajiin"?
 
Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

Steve Mollmann said:

If the Xindi are able to keep such close tabs on Enterprise, would it be that difficult to set up an ambush to destroy the ship?
Surely that's a problem of the TV show, though, going at least as far back as "Rajiin"?

Yes, it is. That's what I meant when I said that not everything I disliked was under the authors' control. There were several problems with Season Three, and some of them are difficult or impossible to fix in the course of a novel.

On KRAD's commentary on Alias, he mentioned that on an objective-based series, if it goes on for very long, you pretty much have to make one or both sides incompetent. That same weakness reared its ugly head on Enterprise with the behavior of the Xindi. In fairness, Martin and Mangels do bring up the divided nature of the Council again in LFM, which explains a lot of their delays and mind-changing.
 
Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

That`s it! I want to have this book! :D

I am so happy that Trip will be around in book form but even putting that aside, this sounds very interesting and exciting.

After Amazon UK let me down twice now I will have to ask my comic supplier again to put this book aside for me, too.
 
^^^
You know, I decided I wasn't going to buy this one to cut down on the number of series I'm reading (and save precious shelf space in the progress), but I think I might have to change that... Thanx for the review.
 
Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

Towerwatcher said:
Babaganoosh said:
Smiley said:Let's get the obvious out of the way first. Trip is "NOT. DEAD."

I KNEW IT!!! :thumbsup:

Take THAT, TATV! *phbbbbt*


I cannot, cannot wait to get my sticky mits on this book now! :thumbsup: :D :angel:

And you were SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ready to dismiss everything as crap without even giving it a chance. ;)
 
Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

Babaganoosh said:
Smiley said:Let's get the obvious out of the way first. Trip is "NOT. DEAD."

I KNEW IT!!! :thumbsup:

Take THAT, TATV! *phbbbbt*
Uh, there's nothing for the episode to "take." There is nothing in Last Full Measure that in any way contradicts what we saw in "These Are the Voyages..."

You'll just have to, y'know, read the book..... ;)
 
Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

KRAD said:Uh, there's nothing for the episode to "take." There is nothing in Last Full Measure that in any way contradicts what we saw in "These Are the Voyages..."

The book apparently has Trip surviving the events of that episode and having his death faked. You don't call that a contradiction? :confused:
 
Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

KRAD said:
There is nothing in Last Full Measure that in any way contradicts what we saw in "These Are the Voyages..."

Maybe not in clever writearound terms, but apparently it does contradict the episode's clear intentions, which were that Trip is dead, dead, dead. If so, it seems like the kind of shameless pandering to fandom's more vocal crybabies that would have been better avoided.
 
Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

holy jesus! why not read the book to see whether this is "shameless pandering". now that they brought back trip people are going to be complaining about that too?! i guess there really is no pleasing geeks
 
Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

skeletorsingh said:
i guess there really is no pleasing geeks
I love when people point out that some fans will complain about one decision, and then act shocked that other fans would complain about the opposite decision. It's almost like different fans have different opinions or something.

Anyway, I'm willing to give any approach the benefit of the doubt, although Trip being alive loses bunches of points with me just for being yet another case of Trek playing the "Oh look, a dead character. But not really!" game. (I also wonder how this represents the sort of fidelity to the source material that we're told is so vital. Is the point really to align only to the technical facts of the canon, ignoring their obvious implications?) Then again, I don't read or plan to read ENT novels, so really I have no place in this discussion.

...Look, a goose!
 
Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

I am not surprised that not everyone is pleased. And the comments about "another death that isn`t really one" are what I expected, too.

On the other hand, this was the first Trek death that is told in the form of a holodeck program which opens possibilities that are not available in other cases.

I am willing to believe that Trip is alive as said in the review here unless someone says that the reviewer is wrong. Well, I am hoping to get the book soon because I can`t wait to read it myself!
 
Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

Baerbel Haddrell said:
On the other hand, this was the first Trek death that is told in the form of a holodeck program which opens possibilities that are not available in other cases.
Not meaningful ones in the context of this complaint. No matter which side of this godforsaken debate you're on, the fact that the story was told via a holoprogram is irrelevant. Whether it was presented in "real life," as a holoprogram, or as something a drunken Montgomery Scott acted out with shadowpuppets, the intention of the story is obviously that Trip died. That this story offered its own unique ways of sneaking around that intention is beside the point, in that it doesn't make setting aside Trip's death qualitatively different from any other instance.
 
Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

It does to me but that is of course depending on, as you said, what side you are on and how you are looking at "canon" material. I see nothing wrong with it finding ways around bad decisions when there is a good, plausible, exciting story behind it. I am sure, Enterprise Relaunch will provide that.
 
Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

Nobody here *wanted* Trip to die, did they? So why are there complaints now that he didn't? I'll never understand these things. :confused:

I mean, this opens up some fantastic possibilities. How did Trip survive what happened in TATV? Who ordered that his death be faked, and why? How long did Trip *really* live? Is there a 'Charles Tucker the Tenth' (or whatever) who lives in current Trek's timeline? Lots of stories to tell, there.
 
Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

Baerbel Haddrell said:
I see nothing wrong with it finding ways around bad decisions when there is a good, plausible, exciting story behind it.
But what you may think of as "bad" is very likely to be different from what other people think of as "bad". Quality is in the eye of the consumer, after all.

Now, if you're talking "lack of storytelling possibilities", that's another bucket of kippers. Personally, I thought (and still do) that the death of Trip opened up a whole load of possible ways to follow up on the events of TATV. To me, having him die for certain is much more interesting than have him survive miraculously. I do, however, realise that this may not be the case for everybody, as shocking as this seems to me.

Babaganoosh said:
Nobody here *wanted* Trip to die, did they? So why are there complaints now that he didn't? I'll never understand these things. :confused:
Oh, I'm sure there are a few people who didn't shed a tear about his demise. Others (of whom I consider myself a member) merely accepted what they were presented with on TV without uttering cries of either satisfaction or denial. This group quite possibly sees Trip's "resurrection" as a cop-out, but I'm sure they'll reserve final judgment until they've actually, y'know, read the book.

I mean, this opens up some fantastic possibilities.
So does every other possible outcome. All it takes is a good idea or five, and you're set.
 
Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

MichaelS said:
Others (of whom I consider myself a member) merely accepted what they were presented with on TV without uttering cries of either satisfaction or denial. This group quite possibly sees Trip's "resurrection" as a cop-out, but I'm sure they'll reserve final judgment until they've actually, y'know, read the book.
Quite.
 
Re: Last Full Measure Discussion and Review (MAJOR SPOILERS!

Brendan Moody said:
Baerbel Haddrell said:
On the other hand, this was the first Trek death that is told in the form of a holodeck program which opens possibilities that are not available in other cases.
Not meaningful ones in the context of this complaint. No matter which side of this godforsaken debate you're on, the fact that the story was told via a holoprogram is irrelevant. Whether it was presented in "real life," as a holoprogram, or as something a drunken Montgomery Scott acted out with shadowpuppets, the intention of the story is obviously that Trip died. That this story offered its own unique ways of sneaking around that intention is beside the point, in that it doesn't make setting aside Trip's death qualitatively different from any other instance.

Once more dear friends….

Right.

I read the script for “These Are The Voyages…” and was… horrified… naw I HATED it. This was how they were ending the show? REALLY? In my opinion, this was not a meaningful death. (See: Spock, ST:II) It was almost as if someone had said, “Well, someone has to die, let’s kill a popular character. Let’s kill Trip.”

I waited until I saw the show, even more… annoyed (NOT the verb I would like to use) seeing it. But I thought about it, and I thought I knew what could/would work and what I’d like to do. I went with my heart. (I didn’t go near the boards.)

Now with the change of the publishing program, LFM got moved, big time. I suggested the framing sequence, to the M&M boys, to acknowledge the passage of time. They gave me one. Then, I started reading the interviews that Mr. Berman and Mr. Braga gave on the show finale… I called M. “Nice story but I wonder… let’s change the framing.” Huh? “Let’s make it (short version) Trip, and while we are at it, let’s have him meet a very serious George Samuel Kirk, and his young kid brother, Jim.”

I don’t take contradicting established continuity lightly. I respect the show(s) and the fans (being one myself). But TATV was many things, one thing it was NOT was, “A love letter to the fans.”

Cry Harry, England and Saint George….

Margaret

Rarely do I do this. But this is from the heart, not the head.
 
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