Last Classic Who Story you watched

[Christopher]

That was my impression the first time I watched it, as well. That said, I think Chibnall disagrees with you.

It was the only interpretation consistent with the explicit statement in "The Three Doctors" years before that Hartnell was the earliest Doctor, as well as later references confirming it in "Mawdryn Undead" and "The Five Doctors." So it was always strange to me that some people thought they were earlier Doctors rather than earlier Morbii.

At least Chibnall's retcon rationalizes the inconsistency by having them be secret earlier incarnations, so the characters who said Hartnell was the first (the Time Lords in "The Three Doctors" and the Doctor himself in the later instances, plus all the references in the modern series prior to last season) were stating the truth as far as they knew it.

 

[diankra]

I was five when Three Doctors went out, so didn't remember it and spot the contradiction in Morbius. Six months later Assassin massively contradicted it, so the 12 regenerations means they can't be pre-Hartnell Doctors became the retcon, but the three serials are all clearly intentioned as made, and contradictory.
As another poster quoted Terrance, continuity is what I remember. And the Chibnall retcon, like the Cartmel one before it, says that there were earlier incarnations that the Doctor doesn't remember.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

The Cartmel Masterplan still posited the Doctor as the center of the story and seperate from the entity that was involved in the creation of Gallifrey society. I'd say that's a considerable difference.

 

[Christopher]

I was five when Three Doctors went out, so didn't remember it and spot the contradiction in Morbius. Six months later Assassin massively contradicted it

Strictly speaking, it didn't. There were only eight "Morbius Doctors" shown, which would have made Tom Baker the twelfth incarnation, meaning he would've had one more life to go. "Morbius" wasn't explicitly contradicted until "Mawdryn" stated outright that the Doctor had only used four of his regenerations.

so the 12 regenerations means they can't be pre-Hartnell Doctors became the retcon

No, it was a correction back to the original intent. "The Three Doctors" explicitly said Hartnell was the first, "Morbius" contradicted that, and then "Mawdryn," "Five Doctors," and everything else pre-Chibnall ignored "Morbius"'s change and reaffirmed that Hartnell was the first. So "Morbius" was the retcon, or rather an attempted retcon, but it didn't stick. Not until Chibnall revived it and found a way to reconcile it with the characters' consistent belief that Hartnell was the first.

It's analogous to the portrayal of antimatter in Star Trek: TOS. First "The Naked Time" established that starships are powered by matter-antimatter annihilation. Then "The Alternative Factor" idiotically said that a matter-antimatter annihilation was a rare phenomenon that would destroy the entire universe if it happened. Then everything after that wisely ignored "The Alternative Factor"'s stupid continuity error and went back to the original version.

 

[Tomalak]

To be slightly pedantic, I don't think The Three Doctors describes Hartnell as the "first" Doctor, merely "the earliest" - which could be taken to mean the earliest incarnation the power-starved Time Lords had access to.

 

[Christopher]

To be slightly pedantic, I don't think The Three Doctors describes Hartnell as the "first" Doctor, merely "the earliest" - which could be taken to mean the earliest incarnation the power-starved Time Lords had access to.

The Time Lord President does overtly refer to Troughton as "the second Doctor," though. I guess that if you were really desperate, you could handwave that to mean the second one to become involved with the current crisis; but between that and his reference to Hartnell as simply "the earliest Doctor" (without any additional qualifications), I think the intent of the story is explicit.

 

[Tomalak]

Yep, fair point - I couldn't recall if Troughton is called out as the second. You are right that the intent is clear, as are subsequent references in the series. It's only really The Brain of Morbius that subverts it, but that scene is anything but clear.

 

[dupersuper]

The Mind of Evil parts 3 and 4

 

[Haggis and tatties]

To be slightly pedantic, I don't think The Three Doctors describes Hartnell as the "first" Doctor, merely "the earliest" - which could be taken to mean the earliest incarnation the power-starved Time Lords had access to.

Yeah Who is a funny one because we all seem to see something different, because with me i see that line as a confirmation that Hartnell was indeed the first and "the earliest" incarnation of the doctor, but maybe that just shows you just how good every aspect of the show was back in the day before canon was more than just a camera, when it seems to have so many different layers for so many different people. ha

 

[Christopher]

but maybe that just shows you just how good every aspect of the show was back in the day before canon was more than just a camera, when it seems to have so many different layers for so many different people. ha

Of course, this was still in the era when the BBC was willing to erase its old shows because it saw TV as an impermanent thing. Nobody expected early Doctor Who stories to be remembered for long; after all, it was a children's show, so the original audience would've aged out and the current audience wouldn't have been old enough to watch or remember episodes from years before. Even recent stories were rarely rebroadcast; they were seen as ephemeral things meant for momentary entertainment and then forgotten. So there was little incentive to stay consistent with the show's past, except in broad strokes and general concepts. What mattered was the story you were telling in the here and now.

 

[Tomalak]

Indeed. The only UK repeats prior to the Five Faces of Doctor Who run in 1981 tended to be recent stories, either in full or in omnibus versions, used to plug gaps in the schedules during school holidays and the like. The idea of watching an episode from years earlier was unimaginable, which is partly why the Target novelisations were so popular. The increasing number of continuity references which started peppering stories in the eighties must have been quite baffling to a lot of viewers.

Although infamously, the very first episode was repeated when the original broadcast was somewhat overshadowed by the Kennedy assassination!

A lot of the omnibus versions are being released on the Blu-ray sets (most recently The Daemons) and a handful were already on the DVDs. There was a planned omnibus of The Seeds of Doom for which Douglas Camfield prepared extensive notes, and we've been told it's very likely this will be put together for the season 13 set.

The full list of UK BBC repeats can be found here - Broadwcast.

 

[arch101]

Watched Underworld yesterday. A fairly pedestrian Tom Baker ep. I must applaud the early try at all-blue screen (I'm guessing because of the time they were made) sets. It looks like they built almost no real caves at all for the ep. The rescue ship and the Citadel were a redress of the same set, so this must have been a really budget ep. But it was pretty interesting. I don't think there have been many other shows ever dealing with races "brought up" by the Time Lords before they withdrew to their retiring life of seclusion.

 

[Mr Awe]

Watched Underworld yesterday. A fairly pedestrian Tom Baker ep. I must applaud the early try at all-blue screen (I'm guessing because of the time they were made) sets. It looks like they built almost no real caves at all for the ep. The rescue ship and the Citadel were a redress of the same set, so this must have been a really budget ep. But it was pretty interesting. I don't think there have been many other shows ever dealing with races "brought up" by the Time Lords before they withdrew to their retiring life of seclusion.

I know that Underworld catches a lot of grief. But, as a kid, I enjoyed this story and the sense of history of the groups splitting over time. I rewatched it for the first time since the 80s in the last five years and I still enjoyed it. Not a classic but enjoyable.

I believe you're correct that the caves are all green screen. It partially succeeded at that. I was a bit more distracted by it as an adult than as a kid!

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Underworld might be the most irredeemable serial of DW in the 1970's. Its just tedious. At least Invasion of Time has the mystery of the Doctor going bad.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Continuing the Master's 50th Anniversary run, Time-Flight tonight...

 

[worf1965]

On my complete rewatch (one episode a day)I'm up to The Green Death. I really like the Pertwee era. Funny I also really liked the Hartnell and Troughton eras too. I like that we're not overloaded with Daleks and Cyberrmen though Planet of the Daleks was good. Conversely, they way overdid the Master. I do have to admit I liked Jo Grant much more this time than my first time through. She truly adores the Doctor and I will be sad when she's gone after this series.

 

[Tomalak]

The Green Death might be my favourite ever story.

 

[Haggis and tatties]

^^^Love the green death as it gives me a time and date of 26 May 1973 on a Saturday evening as to where and when i saw my first colour TV and colour TV show that was The Green death. ha

 

[diankra]

I know that Underworld catches a lot of grief. But, as a kid, I enjoyed this story and the sense of history of the groups splitting over time. I rewatched it for the first time since the 80s in the last five years and I still enjoyed it. Not a classic but enjoyable.

I believe you're correct that the caves are all green screen. It partially succeeded at that. I was a bit more distracted by it as an adult than as a kid!

The problem with Underworld is not the CSO sets, but the scripting of 2 to 4. Episode one is rather wonderful, the rest is really run around in (cso) corridors.

 

[Mr Awe]

The problem with Underworld is not the CSO sets, but the scripting of 2 to 4. Episode one is rather wonderful, the rest is really run around in (cso) corridors.

Perhaps. But, I found it mildly entertaining. I'm sure I'm the exception though!