Last Christmas Grading and Discussion Thread

[davejames]

I was wondering, knowing that originally Jenna was supposed to be leaving after this episode, if the "old Clara" was supposed to be the real ending. If so, I would have liked it because it was very reminiscent of Clara's goodbye scene with Old Matt Smith on Trenzalore, right down to them opening the Christmas cracker (which I don't think I've ever seen in person...must not be an American custom).

Knowing how much Moffat likes to toy with the fans, I suspect he only threw that in there to mess with people (since people were speculating about her leaving pretty much all year long), and that Coleman had already decided to stay by then.

And from recent interviews it sounds like Moffat and Capaldi both wanted her to stay another season anyway (and that it wasn't a matter of her forcing herself back into the show or something), so I doubt it was as big as a deal to the production as people want to think.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

^ It's possible she was genuinely undecided and they filmed both. Certainly, as I said before, they did a pretty good job keeping it secret.

It was 60 years for her, but only a few minutes for the Doctor. It's not like he forgot her.

Well I think he even said words to that effect. And the sense I got wasn't that he accidentally jumped further ahead in time, but that it was roughly 60 years later that Clara was initially attacked by the facehugger, and when all this really began. She was only imagining herself younger the entire time.

At least... that was the implication before Santa returned one final time to wake the Doctor yet again.

Well, they said that the Facehuggers could be linking them across time, so it's entirely possible for both to be true.

 

[Mr Awe]

Moffat waves his hand again and the unhealthy and toxic relationship between the Doctor and Clara (and Moffat) continues for another series. Yuck. I suppose humbug is a better term but I'm going with yuck.

Hopefully they'll be a bit more baggage free but considering that Moffat stupidly believes Clara is basically the main character on the show, I just wouldn't count on that.

Huh? It was clearly a major point of this episode to get rid of that baggage and for them to start out fresh with a better relationship. Danny is gone. The baggage is gone. The Doctor realizes that he wants to travel with Clara. Clara realizes she wants to travel with the Doctor, very likely full-time now.

It's a new beginning! A second chance as the Doctor himself notes.

Mr Awe

 

[The Wormhole]

NOW...can we go searching for Gallifrey already?! It's gotta be out there somewhere.

I had a theory that Gallifrey wouldn't be found until Capaldi's final episode. My theory is that each season of the Capaldi era is going to lead to someone's promised land. In season 8 it was Missy's promised land within the Nethersphere, in season 9 it'll be someone else's promised land elsewhere, all leading up the end of the Capaldi era in which the Doctor finally returns to Gallifrey, his own promised land.

 

[Guy Gardener]

There may be no local syndication, but there are 210 (ish, depends how you count) other countries on the planet that may attempt to air the show first run.

Again, I'm not even sure if the nobodies in the background get paid for replays in the UK, or in dirty foreign markets.

She does take my breath away.

But then she speaks.

 

[intrinsical]

I am leaning towards the group who thinks Clara has overstayed her welcome. However after reading this article where Moffat explains the rationale behind Clara's actions, I'm more or less okay with Clara continuing in series 9 as her story isn't complete. I am willing to give Moffat a bit more leeway to tell the story he intended. Just a tiny bit more leeway.

Frankly if this is what Moffat is trying to do with Clara, he has failed to convince the audience through Clara's on screen actions. If I had not read the article, I would not even have guessed why Clara was acting the way she did.

 

[Pindar]

I thought it was great, probably my favourite Capaldi story so far.

Fingers crossed we are done with Danny Pink though.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Until Clara figures out that if she slips into bed with him the past, she can leave the next morning with baby Pink, which is exactly what happened in the Time Travellers Wife.

(Horrible movie!)

Hells, she can disguise herself holographically and be every other one of his girlfriends and/or randoms.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

BTW, one thing I'll point out because I like clever things that are obvious once you realize they're there but completely miss the first time. The realization that people are still dreaming was something I expected. But I completely missed there being only four manuals but eight crewmembers. Like I said, I like clever things like that.

I less liked the other four crewmembers being themselves, though.

 

[TommyR01D]

Some other observations:

The "thinking about the crabs makes them attack you" element seemed to disappear halfway through.

The control panels in the polar base looked remarkably like LCARS with the colour drained out (and that whole wall could easily be the back of the bridge on an old Miranda or Oberth from TNG).

We never found out the point of dancing through the infirmary at the beginning (What was she trying to reach at the other side?).

If the Doctor and Clara still got trapped in one more dream level (with old Clara), does that mean the others still hadn't woken up either?

Clara's house apparently didn't change much in 62 years - nor did Christmas itself.

The Doctor was presumably already dreaming by the time Santa knocked on the TARDIS door.

The crabs seemingly lack the ability to create a dream world without including completely realistic images of themselves as well (they even die the same way each time).

 

[diankra]

Guy, it's not so much nobodies in the background, but these soaps are episode factories, and the 20-ish first-jobbers will get paid peanuts; the producers get in a batch of half a dozen of them at the same time every few years (teenage children of the new family, and then some schoolfriends/love interests) and see which of them catches on.
At that point you might get a rise to stop you leaving, but at the start, it's peanuts, as there's plenty of other pretty youngsters eager for a first regular TV role if you get pushy (and at the other end, plenty of people who were famous 20 years ago eager for another regular job after their accountant messed up the tax during the good years).
The accurate comparison in terms of residuals, etc, are the US daytime soaps rather than the primetime series.

Tommy, the point about dancing was covered by implication: the dancing was to distract her while she got through the infirmary; why someone had to get through the infirmary is another of those 'long stories' - where you know there's a reason you're doing something in a dream, but can't recall why.

 

[davejames]

I am leaning towards the group who thinks Clara has overstayed her welcome. However after reading this article where Moffat explains the rationale behind Clara's actions, I'm more or less okay with Clara continuing in series 9 as her story isn't complete. I am willing to give Moffat a bit more leeway to tell the story he intended. Just a tiny bit more leeway.

Frankly if this is what Moffat is trying to do with Clara, he has failed to convince the audience through Clara's on screen actions. If I had not read the article, I would not even have guessed why Clara was acting the way she did.

I don't know, I thought that matched up pretty well with the Clara we saw last season. Someone who is just too quick and clever and eager for adventure to live a normal life on Earth, no matter how much she wants to. And who, like the Doctor, has a bit of an ego and thinks every story revolves around them.

Although frankly I think all the complaints about "Clara Who" were overblown anyway. We followed her story pretty closely last season, but ultimately the Doctor played just as important a role as he ever has. And besides, weren't people wanting a return to a more aloof, Classic-style Doctor who's not in the spotlight all the time?

We never found out the point of dancing through the infirmary at the beginning (What was she trying to reach at the other side?).

Well as they like to say in the episode... It's a long story.

 

[RoJoHen]

Although frankly I think all the complaints about "Clara Who" were overblown anyway. We followed her story pretty closely last season, but ultimately the Doctor played just as important a role as he ever has. And besides, weren't people wanting a return to a more aloof, Classic-style Doctor who's not in the spotlight all the time?

Ultimately, the biggest problem I had with Clara's story from Season 8 was Danny Pink. He was just...so...boring! They didn't have enough chemistry, and I just didn't buy their relationship for a second.

I don't mind when the show focuses on the companions. I could watch "The Amy and Rory Show" all day long; I wouldn't even need the Doctor to show up. I could even watch "The Clara Show" if the supporting cast was any good. And that's been my problem: Clara's life is just so dull (and maybe that's the point). Clara NEEDS to travel with the Doctor because ordinary life can't satisfy her.

 

[RoJoHen]

Oh, and one more random thing: I'm tired of these extra long time jumps.

It was cute with Smith and Amy. She was "The Girl Who Waited," so it fit in with the story for the Doctor to be late all the time.

Now it's like a joke that's worn out its welcome. He's a Time Lord. He needs to get his shit together and figure out how to fly his damn ship.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I am leaning towards the group who thinks Clara has overstayed her welcome. However after reading this article where Moffat explains the rationale behind Clara's actions, I'm more or less okay with Clara continuing in series 9 as her story isn't complete. I am willing to give Moffat a bit more leeway to tell the story he intended. Just a tiny bit more leeway.

Frankly if this is what Moffat is trying to do with Clara, he has failed to convince the audience through Clara's on screen actions. If I had not read the article, I would not even have guessed why Clara was acting the way she did.

I don't know, I thought that matched up pretty well with the Clara we saw last season. Someone who is just too quick and clever and eager for adventure to live a normal life on Earth, no matter how much she wants to. And who, like the Doctor, has a bit of an ego and thinks every story revolves around them.

Although frankly I think all the complaints about "Clara Who" were overblown anyway. We followed her story pretty closely last season, but ultimately the Doctor played just as important a role as he ever has. And besides, weren't people wanting a return to a more aloof, Classic-style Doctor who's not in the spotlight all the time?

We never found out the point of dancing through the infirmary at the beginning (What was she trying to reach at the other side?).

Well as they like to say in the episode... It's a long story.

Too bad they all didn't say "I'll explain later".

Are we to assume those four put the other four to bed in the infirmary and didn't read their nametags then?

 

[RoJoHen]

Are we to assume those four put the other four to bed in the infirmary and didn't read their nametags then?

Maybe, maybe not. It was all just a dream. For all we know the dream started with them already in the beds.

 

[Timewalker]

I am leaning towards the group who thinks Clara has overstayed her welcome. However after reading this article where Moffat explains the rationale behind Clara's actions, I'm more or less okay with Clara continuing in series 9 as her story isn't complete. I am willing to give Moffat a bit more leeway to tell the story he intended. Just a tiny bit more leeway.

Frankly if this is what Moffat is trying to do with Clara, he has failed to convince the audience through Clara's on screen actions. If I had not read the article, I would not even have guessed why Clara was acting the way she did.

So... both of them think they're Always Right and just know what's right for the other?

Sheesh, if Clara wants adventure, why not find some planet where lots of adventurous stuff is going on? Or take up with Jack and his people? Someone capable and Always Right would fit in very well there.

Just get her the hell out of the TARDIS so we can have a decent companion, and quit making the show into a damn soap opera.

I'm already watching a couple of soaps, and if I want a Whovian connection, the actress who played Harriet Jones is a regular on Downton Abbey.

 

[diankra]

Side note... when you think about it, the fake ending is obviously coming from the Doctor's nightmare, as it's a recurrence of what happened with Rory and Amy.

 

[Timewalker]

Rory and Amy got old via Weeping Angel.

Clara just got old. It's not the first time the Doctor saw a companion visibly aged. Susan was no teenager in The Five Doctors, and Sarah was visibly older each time she met up with another Doctor. Same with the Brigadier.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

Having watched it a second time, I liked it more. As a "Clara fan" I'm baffled by people saying her story is done. It's done because you want it to be done, simple as that. The whole of Series 8 and now this special showed us that Clara is addicted to adventuring with the Doctor. So her story has gone from "The Impossible Girl" to "The Girl Who Saved the Doctor" to the girl who tried having a normal life but she had difficulty with it. The death of her boyfriend, and the events of "Last Christmas" sealed it...her destiny is with the Doctor. They are tied together...always have been. And the Doctor doesn't want her to leave either. Eleven was in love with her (and she with him). Twelve is very attached to her, and relished being given a second chance to travel with her.

Series 9, if the "Magician's Apprentice" title means what I think it means, will be Clara learning at the Doctor's side. Hopefully this means they will find Gallifrey together, and her exit will either be her dying while saving his life (again) or getting her own TARDIS so she can have solo adventures.

Any of this will piss the "Clara haters" off. Oh well. Tune out of the show then, and rewatch episodes from 1973 until your DVD player melts, for all I care. I'm just thrilled to see the angst that plagued series 8 gone, and both of them happy again, like it was in series 7.

It's as it should be.