La'an: Missed Opportunity?

[Death Ray]

By Star Trek standards, the amount of "bad writing" on this show has been...virtually nonexistent. By comparison with all previous series and movies.

But as has already been said, "bad writing" and its idiot cousin "lazy writing" is just code for "I don't like this."

Well, who DOES like bad writing?

I think some people feel personally attacked when you say something they like is written poorly. I can only repeat that you could keep all the things you like about La'an and Una and still tighten up their stories, make them less similar, and find a better justification for La'an being Khan's descendant. I still maintain that they WILL ultimately exploit this feature of La'an-- there is no sensible reason not to go there. I just think that eugenics prejudice would have fit her like a glove, and that a separate kind of drama should have been reserved for Una.

 

[Serveaux]

 

[Sci]

I believe that the big difference in Star Trek these days versus previous eras is that Star Trek is now being written for a female audience, which (in the showrunners' mind, I believe) means an emphasis on emotion and drama, and regrettably, a lack of attention to detail regarding the actual Trek-ness of it all.

I can't take anything you say seriously after this misogynistic garbage.

 

[Death Ray]

I can't take anything you say seriously after this misogynistic garbage.

How on earth did you squeeze “misogyny” out of that?

Listen up: I am utterly intolerant of people who are misogynistic, and twice so towards people who toss that word around because they don’t know how to read.

I challenge anyone to review the current running ST series (SNW, LD and DISCO), with their majority female casts and female leads, and deny that these shows are as pitched towards women as TOS, with it’s dashing captain and slave girls and miniskirts, was pitched towards men.

Now, with that undeniable fact out of the way, here’s the bottom line: A show pitched towards women is going to give the audience more of what the suits think women want, which is different then what men want. That means more heart to hearts, and more emotionally driven drama. Hence, all the childhood trauma shared by Uhura, La’an and Una. (Don’t know about the other three woman officers).

They will also want the women to kick ass as often as possible so that the men don’t run the table when it comes to action. That might explain why they gave Nurse Chappel kung fu powers briefly, and why Una has She Hulk strength, and why the chief of security is female.

It is not misogynistic to point out how a show is going out of its way to not BE misogynistic.

But if a majority of dialogue is reserved for dramatic conversation, that also means less time for Treknobabble, to put it bluntly, which means less sophisticated scif-fi plots. There is only so much dialogue time in a show like this. There are space battles and kick fights to get to as well. The slower, nerdier moments are what ends up falling by the wayside.

 

[fireproof78]

Well, my days of taking this seriously are certainly coming to a middle.

 

[Death Ray]

That's fine. That is not at all the same as disagreeing with me.

 

[fireproof78]

Oh, I do given the dismissive attitude of this male viewer preferring emotions, drama and character moments over action, scifi or vfx.

It's very difficult to take seriously at all, much less find any measure of possible agreement.

 

[Death Ray]

Oh, I do given the dismissive attitude of this male viewer preferring emotions, drama and character moments over action, scifi or vfx.

It's very difficult to take seriously at all, much less find any measure of possible agreement.

Well, you are going to be hard pressed to deny that men and women have different tastes, and that includes different tastes in the kinds of emotion and drama they prefer.

You will also be hard pressed to find a lot of slow moving, jargony scenes like this one in SNW:

 

[fireproof78]

Well, you are going to be hard pressed to deny that men and women have different tastes, and that includes different tastes in the kinds of emotion and drama they prefer.

You are speaking very broadly and ignoring my comment.

I thank you for the enlightening conversation.

 

[Sci]

How on earth did you squeeze “misogyny” out of that?

Listen up: I am utterly intolerant of people who are misogynistic, and twice so towards people who toss that word around because they don’t know how to read.

I challenge anyone to review the current running ST series (SNW, LD and DISCO), with their majority female casts and female leads, and deny that these shows are as pitched towards women as TOS, with it’s dashing captain and slave girls and miniskirts, was pitched towards men.

Now, with that undeniable fact out of the way, here’s the bottom line: A show pitched towards women is going to give the audience more of what the suits think women want, which is different then what men want. That means more heart to hearts, and more emotionally driven drama. Hence, all the childhood trauma shared by Uhura, La’an and Una. (Don’t know about the other three woman officers).

They will also want the women to kick ass as often as possible so that the men don’t run the table when it comes to action. That might explain why they gave Nurse Chappel kung fu powers briefly, and why Una has She Hulk strength, and why the chief of security is female.

It is not misogynistic to point out how a show is going out of its way to not BE misogynistic.

"I'm not perpetuating misogynistic stereotypes; the other guy is!"

*yawns*

But if a majority of dialogue is reserved for dramatic conversation, that also means less time for Treknobabble, to put it bluntly, which means less sophisticated scif-fi plots.

Imagine thinking there's anything sophisticated about meaningless technical-sounding drivel.

 

[Death Ray]

"I'm not perpetuating misogynistic stereotypes; the other guy is!"

All I said us that the show is targeted at a female audience. You are the one who appears threatened by it.

Imagine thinking there's anything sophisticated about meaningless technical-sounding drivel.

Oh! Is that what you think of Star Trek?

You know what? You’ve shown up out of nowhere to queer this thread with your issues. I’m not into your Twitter shit. I’ll take a hike before your bring a mod into this convo to wipe your ass for you.

 

[DonIago]

First you claim Star Trek now is catering to women, and now you've used "queer this thread"?

I think I've heard all I need to hear.

 

[Sci]

All I said us that the show is targeted at a female audience.

No, it's not. And the idea that you think that a show that has X content you don't approve of must be targeted at a female audience is misogynistic.

Imagine thinking there's anything sophisticated about meaningless technical-sounding drivel.

Oh! Is that what you think of Star Trek?

Star Trek can be wonderfully sophisticated. Meaningless technical-sounding drivel, on the other hand, is a creative infection that consistently drained Star Trek of its dramatic power and integrity throughout the late 1990s and early 2000s. I am delighted that modern Star Trek productions have largely done away with technobabble.

You know what? You’ve shown up out of nowhere to queer this thread with your issues.

"Queer this thread" huh.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I believe that the big difference in Star Trek these days versus previous eras is that Star Trek is now being written for a female audience...

Nah.

It has been my observation since 1980, when I found fandom, that the audience of Trek has often been a 50/50 gender split. Different priorities in fannish output and at conventions, with female fans perhaps tending toward fanfic while the male fans tending toward tech aspects. I think the old "fanboys only club" is a bit of a myth, plundered by the media and satirical commentary, such as "Galaxy Quest" and "Saturday Night Live".

I remember it being a big deal when TNG had its first female director, Gabrielle Beaumont, but TOS had several very prominent female influences in its pool of writers, especially DC Fontana. I think the writers have always known they were writing for a wide demographic, including across generations in families.

 

[Therin of Andor]

You’ve shown up out of nowhere to queer this thread with your issues. I’m not into your Twitter shit. I’ll take a hike before your bring a mod into this convo to wipe your ass for you.

The mods are here. You are now derailing the thread yourself (again). When you are deliberately provocative you are most welcome to take a hike. It is possible to discuss your opinions without stomping on others' sensibilities.

 

[Sci]

Nah.

It has been my observation since 1980, when I found fandom, that the audience of Trek has often been a 50/50 gender split. Different priorities in fannish output and at conventions, with female fans perhaps tending toward fanfic while the male fans tending toward tech aspects. I think the old "fanboys only club" is a bit of a myth, plundered by the media and satirical commentary, such as "Galaxy Quest" and "Saturday Night Live".

I remember it being a big deal when TNG had its first female director, Gabrielle Beaumont, but TOS had several very prominent female influences in its pool of writers, especially DC Fontana. I think the writers have always known they were writing for a wide demographic, including across generations in families.

Indeed, it is my understanding that early Star Trek fandom was arguably predominantly female, with women founding most of the early fanzines, women writing some of the earliest fanfic, women driving the popularity of the show especially vis-a-vis the icon of Mister Spock, and a woman, Bjo Trimble, famously leading the campaign to save Star Trek from cancellation.

Star Trek is not and has never been for men. It is, has always been, and remains for people of all gender identities.

 

[Weyoun 251]

How on earth did you squeeze “misogyny” out of that?

Listen up: I am utterly intolerant of people who are misogynistic, and twice so towards people who toss that word around because they don’t know how to read.

I challenge anyone to review the current running ST series (SNW, LD and DISCO), with their majority female casts and female leads, and deny that these shows are as pitched towards women as TOS, with it’s dashing captain and slave girls and miniskirts, was pitched towards men.

Now, with that undeniable fact out of the way, here’s the bottom line: A show pitched towards women is going to give the audience more of what the suits think women want, which is different then what men want. That means more heart to hearts, and more emotionally driven drama. Hence, all the childhood trauma shared by Uhura, La’an and Una. (Don’t know about the other three woman officers).

They will also want the women to kick ass as often as possible so that the men don’t run the table when it comes to action. That might explain why they gave Nurse Chappel kung fu powers briefly, and why Una has She Hulk strength, and why the chief of security is female.

It is not misogynistic to point out how a show is going out of its way to not BE misogynistic.

But if a majority of dialogue is reserved for dramatic conversation, that also means less time for Treknobabble, to put it bluntly, which means less sophisticated scif-fi plots. There is only so much dialogue time in a show like this. There are space battles and kick fights to get to as well. The slower, nerdier moments are what ends up falling by the wayside.

So by the same token then Voyager, BTVS and Alias to name but 3 shows with female leads must also have been pitched towards women?

Because men can't enjoy a female lead show and vice versa, right?

Regarding your woman can't be strong - do you not remember season 4 Hoshi where it turned out she was secretly a master of Brazilian Ju Jitsu or something all along?

And the whole "only women should discuss emotions" thing - there is a reason why men have higher suicide rates than women and it isn't because men are encouraged to be open and in touch with their own so a show that positively shows people (both men and women) being open and supportive is surely a positive?

Finally Treknobabble =/= sophisticated - I am pretty sure that the "babble" part of the term almost explicitly shows it is not sophisticated.

 

[Australis]

What does bother me is Kirk and Spock not saying right away, when they meet Khan in "Space Seed," "'Noonien Singh'? Why, that's funny, I know someone with the same surnames, what are the odds...?"

Yes, why didn't they build that into the script 50 years ago?

 

[Serveaux]

What bothers me is the lack of a technobabble explanation for why, when the crew sings, they are accompanied by a full orchestra.

Nerds Wanna Know.™

 

[Chovak]

What bothers me is the lack of a technobabble explanation for why, when the crew sings, they are accompanied by a full orchestra.

Nerds Wanna Know.™

The quantum improbability field that compels them to sing in a heightened emotinal state also directly stimulates the auditory cortices by inducing collective adaptive dynamic harmonization impulses at a rate of 96 kHz to create the illusion of musical accompaniment.