La'an: Missed Opportunity?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Strange New Worlds' started by Death Ray, Aug 3, 2023.

  1. Death Ray

    Death Ray Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2016
    Well, who DOES like bad writing?

    I think some people feel personally attacked when you say something they like is written poorly. I can only repeat that you could keep all the things you like about La'an and Una and still tighten up their stories, make them less similar, and find a better justification for La'an being Khan's descendant. I still maintain that they WILL ultimately exploit this feature of La'an-- there is no sensible reason not to go there. I just think that eugenics prejudice would have fit her like a glove, and that a separate kind of drama should have been reserved for Una.
     
  2. Serveaux

    Serveaux Fleet Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2013
    Location:
    Among the sellers.
  3. Sci

    Sci Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2002
    Location:
    Montgomery County, State of Maryland
    I can't take anything you say seriously after this misogynistic garbage.
     
  4. Death Ray

    Death Ray Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2016
    How on earth did you squeeze “misogyny” out of that?

    Listen up: I am utterly intolerant of people who are misogynistic, and twice so towards people who toss that word around because they don’t know how to read.

    I challenge anyone to review the current running ST series (SNW, LD and DISCO), with their majority female casts and female leads, and deny that these shows are as pitched towards women as TOS, with it’s dashing captain and slave girls and miniskirts, was pitched towards men.

    Now, with that undeniable fact out of the way, here’s the bottom line: A show pitched towards women is going to give the audience more of what the suits think women want, which is different then what men want. That means more heart to hearts, and more emotionally driven drama. Hence, all the childhood trauma shared by Uhura, La’an and Una. (Don’t know about the other three woman officers).

    They will also want the women to kick ass as often as possible so that the men don’t run the table when it comes to action. That might explain why they gave Nurse Chappel kung fu powers briefly, and why Una has She Hulk strength, and why the chief of security is female.

    It is not misogynistic to point out how a show is going out of its way to not BE misogynistic.

    But if a majority of dialogue is reserved for dramatic conversation, that also means less time for Treknobabble, to put it bluntly, which means less sophisticated scif-fi plots. There is only so much dialogue time in a show like this. There are space battles and kick fights to get to as well. The slower, nerdier moments are what ends up falling by the wayside.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2023
  5. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Journeying onwards
    Well, my days of taking this seriously are certainly coming to a middle.
     
  6. Death Ray

    Death Ray Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2016
    That's fine. That is not at all the same as disagreeing with me.:beer:
     
  7. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Journeying onwards
    Oh, I do given the dismissive attitude of this male viewer preferring emotions, drama and character moments over action, scifi or vfx.

    It's very difficult to take seriously at all, much less find any measure of possible agreement.
     
    Campe, Jack Wolfe, DonIago and 3 others like this.
  8. Death Ray

    Death Ray Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2016
    Well, you are going to be hard pressed to deny that men and women have different tastes, and that includes different tastes in the kinds of emotion and drama they prefer.

    You will also be hard pressed to find a lot of slow moving, jargony scenes like this one in SNW:

     
  9. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    Journeying onwards
    You are speaking very broadly and ignoring my comment.

    I thank you for the enlightening conversation. :beer:
     
    Jack Wolfe and HotRod like this.
  10. Sci

    Sci Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2002
    Location:
    Montgomery County, State of Maryland
    "I'm not perpetuating misogynistic stereotypes; the other guy is!"

    *yawns*

    Imagine thinking there's anything sophisticated about meaningless technical-sounding drivel.
     
    Ovation, The Wormhole, Avalon and 2 others like this.
  11. Death Ray

    Death Ray Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2016
    All I said us that the show is targeted at a female audience. You are the one who appears threatened by it.

    Oh! Is that what you think of Star Trek?:angel:

    You know what? You’ve shown up out of nowhere to queer this thread with your issues. I’m not into your Twitter shit. I’ll take a hike before your bring a mod into this convo to wipe your ass for you.
     
  12. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    First you claim Star Trek now is catering to women, and now you've used "queer this thread"?

    I think I've heard all I need to hear.
     
  13. Sci

    Sci Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2002
    Location:
    Montgomery County, State of Maryland
    No, it's not. And the idea that you think that a show that has X content you don't approve of must be targeted at a female audience is misogynistic.

    Star Trek can be wonderfully sophisticated. Meaningless technical-sounding drivel, on the other hand, is a creative infection that consistently drained Star Trek of its dramatic power and integrity throughout the late 1990s and early 2000s. I am delighted that modern Star Trek productions have largely done away with technobabble.

    "Queer this thread" huh.
     
    Jedman67, Avalon, DonIago and 3 others like this.
  14. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Location:
    New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
    Nah.

    It has been my observation since 1980, when I found fandom, that the audience of Trek has often been a 50/50 gender split. Different priorities in fannish output and at conventions, with female fans perhaps tending toward fanfic while the male fans tending toward tech aspects. I think the old "fanboys only club" is a bit of a myth, plundered by the media and satirical commentary, such as "Galaxy Quest" and "Saturday Night Live".

    I remember it being a big deal when TNG had its first female director, Gabrielle Beaumont, but TOS had several very prominent female influences in its pool of writers, especially DC Fontana. I think the writers have always known they were writing for a wide demographic, including across generations in families.
     
  15. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Location:
    New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
    The mods are here. You are now derailing the thread yourself (again). When you are deliberately provocative you are most welcome to take a hike. It is possible to discuss your opinions without stomping on others' sensibilities.
     
  16. Sci

    Sci Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2002
    Location:
    Montgomery County, State of Maryland
    Indeed, it is my understanding that early Star Trek fandom was arguably predominantly female, with women founding most of the early fanzines, women writing some of the earliest fanfic, women driving the popularity of the show especially vis-a-vis the icon of Mister Spock, and a woman, Bjo Trimble, famously leading the campaign to save Star Trek from cancellation.

    Star Trek is not and has never been for men. It is, has always been, and remains for people of all gender identities.
     
  17. Ianburns252

    Ianburns252 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2021
    Location:
    Ianburns252
    So by the same token then Voyager, BTVS and Alias to name but 3 shows with female leads must also have been pitched towards women?

    Because men can't enjoy a female lead show and vice versa, right?

    Regarding your woman can't be strong - do you not remember season 4 Hoshi where it turned out she was secretly a master of Brazilian Ju Jitsu or something all along?

    And the whole "only women should discuss emotions" thing - there is a reason why men have higher suicide rates than women and it isn't because men are encouraged to be open and in touch with their own so a show that positively shows people (both men and women) being open and supportive is surely a positive?

    Finally Treknobabble =/= sophisticated - I am pretty sure that the "babble" part of the term almost explicitly shows it is not sophisticated.
     
    Donald G, Sci, Jedman67 and 3 others like this.
  18. Australis

    Australis Writer - Australis Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Location:
    The Edge of Reality
    Yes, why didn't they build that into the script 50 years ago?
     
    Allyn Gibson likes this.
  19. Serveaux

    Serveaux Fleet Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2013
    Location:
    Among the sellers.
    What bothers me is the lack of a technobabble explanation for why, when the crew sings, they are accompanied by a full orchestra.

    Nerds Wanna Know.™
     
  20. Chovak

    Chovak Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2023
    The quantum improbability field that compels them to sing in a heightened emotinal state also directly stimulates the auditory cortices by inducing collective adaptive dynamic harmonization impulses at a rate of 96 kHz to create the illusion of musical accompaniment.
     
    Australis, Sci, Ovation and 6 others like this.