Kol, Son of Kor

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Charles Phipps, Oct 15, 2019.

  1. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2011
    So is he meant to be Kor, Son of Kor's brother or father or another male relation? Klingons practice primogenitor and while the TOS era was more military and less feudal (things seem to have reverted in the TNG era due to the lack of any real enemies to fight), Kor was very much about being a nobleman in the DS9 era--even if he only alluded to it with Worf and Martok.

    Mind you, despite the name, Kor may not have ever been the head of his Household. He was a Dahar Master but that is the result of his military service. He could be a cousin or distant relation while still having the blood of the House of Windsor or whatnot.
     
  2. BillJ

    BillJ History’s Greatest Monster Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    Covington, Ky. USA
    It was a name drop. I doubt the writers gave it any further thought as to who he actually was.
     
  3. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2011
    Crypto-history is inherently silly. However, it is one of the things these forums are for.
     
  4. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    The House of Kor has always been portrayed as aristocratic and arrogant. Kor in TOS certainly acted that way, as did Kol in DSC - looking down on Klingons belonging to lesser Houses, and even treating some as social outcasts (like Voq).

    As for Kol and Kor's specific relationship: We have no idea. They could be brothers or cousins, or Kor could be Kol's nephew (they're not father and son, though - Kor's father is named Rynar).

    Regarding the House's name: most likely Kor in TOS was named after a famous ancestor (in the novelverse, he was named after his grandfather).

    We don't know at which point Kor became head of the House. He probably isn't there yet as of DSC's "present" (2257) - I'm guessing it's still Rynar at that point.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
    Charles Phipps likes this.
  5. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Kor shows up in the newest comic series and is related to Kol and Kol-sha. I don't remember if the relationship is named, but it says the house is named after one of Kor's ancestors, not him. He's not the head of the House yet.

    It's obviously not canon, but is is co-written by one of the show's writers. So I put it as part of my head canon.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
    Charles Phipps likes this.
  6. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    King Daniel Beyond
    Like Fry in Futurama, Kor time-travelled and became his own grandfather.
     
  7. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    I thought for sure initial casting information said Kol was supposed to be Kor's brother, but I can't find anything on that anymore.

    Whatever, they're brothers according to my head canon.
     
    Charles Phipps likes this.
  8. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    In the initial casting, Kol was Voq's original name, and was listed as a protege of T'Kuvma. They later switched the names around.

    Try looking up the initial casting for Voq instead.
     
    Therin of Andor likes this.
  9. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 27, 2009
    Location:
    Daniels' Illinois
    He's never referred to as "Kol, Son of Kor". His father is explicitly named Kol-sha and is a figure in Season 2. My headcanon is that "-sha" is an honorary title or equivalent of Sr., and both were named Kol at or around birth.

    Based on the comics and my own reckoning, I imagine Rynar is a younger brother of Kol-sha.
     
    Timo likes this.
  10. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2019
    Location:
    Pasadena
    The suffix -Sa' actually means General, IIRC
     
  11. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Location:
    Aug 10, 1999
    I hate saying this but I think Kol-sha sounds like Coleslaw.
     
  12. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Location:
    New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
    I thought from that very first episode that it was a purposeful namedrop, especially with Kirsten Beyer on staff. The novel "Forged in Fire" already had made a connection between The Albino in DS9's "Blood Oath" being a Klingon reject, a cousin to Kor via his aunt. I was sweating on Voq, the paleskinned Klingon who was seemingly treated as a pariah in DSC, turning out to have a future connection to the House of Kor.
     
    Charles Phipps likes this.
  13. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    Where did you get that? :confused:

    Kol was a general, but I don't think his father was.
     
  14. Rahul

    Rahul Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2014
    Funny how I agree with BOTH these statements to an absolute 100%!:guffaw:
     
    BillJ likes this.
  15. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 27, 2009
    Location:
    Daniels' Illinois
    It's from Marc Okrand's Klingon language, specifically the 1985 Klingon Dictionary. The show uses alot of Okrand's Klingon, so it would make sense for that to be the reason for the epithet. Kol-sha would be a retired general, probably.
     
    Hythlodeus, Kor, Timo and 1 other person like this.
  16. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    Or a nickname to tell apart the two prominent males in the family, a Colonel Sanders type epithet... Going with Okrand's definition is certainly an option we have little reason to dismiss, even if we do a bit of creative interpreting. Indeed, it would be quite incredible for the name to have been chosen without knowledge of Okrand's Klingonese, but OTOH unlikely for there to be any particularly specific and overthought intent behind the usage. It's just one of the many really cute things about the early season 2 backpedaling.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  17. Ralphis

    Ralphis Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    Location:
    Sol III
    I know it's totally besides the point, but the way they're drawing Kor for that comic is really interesting. Nice mix of TOS and DSC Klingon elements.
     
    Tim Thomason likes this.
  18. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Location:
    My mansion on Qo'noS
    "Worf" and "Duras" are examples of names that get repeated in family lines. "Kor" must be the same.

    Kor
     
  19. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    We have fairly little understanding of this House name business. On House Duras, this Duras guy might be a distant ancestor, a possibly mythical founding father. Or then Duras might be the most recent House leader with an appropriate accomplishment or rite of passage under his belt, and even if said Duras is already deceased, none of his sons can yet apply a name change because they haven't reached this sort of formal maturity.

    Or then it's mandatory for a Duras to name his firstborn son Duras, and said son then commands the household de jure even if more ambitious siblings have the command de facto - perhaps even in the case where the firstborn dies. House of Mogh might have had a Mogh born to Worf's father, only to die early on, leaving Worf in charge but forbidden from changing the name (lest he wish to found an all-new House on his own). Given how Klingons are entitled and encouraged to slay their superiors if those prove inferior, many if not most Houses might thus be named after a dead sibling and ruled by a guy whose name differs from the House name.

    We have seen Houses founded: Grilka got her own when her husband was killed but nobody claimed his now heirless House. Perhaps this only happens when there are no male relatives to the widow, either; the situation was quickly "amended" when Grilka married Quark and the House got a male name. The complex politics of this suggest that naming is not random but instead tightly regulated - meaning we have to wrap the evidence around this concept when the writers decline to do so...

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  20. hammerhead

    hammerhead Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Location:
    London, UK
    In the comic Kor looks like the TOS version, I don’t see any DSC features on him or his uniform? I do like the mix of Klingon styles overall in the comic, they should have done this in the show. At least they are using an original batleth!