All Seeing Eye
Admiral
Klingon Negh'Dar Class Escort Vessel. 
Klingon Negh'Dar
- Thread starter All Seeing Eye
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All Seeing Eye
Admiral
Cardassian Galdeki Class Warship.
Interesting work... is that original art (which merely resembles prior stuff) or is it clever editing work... subtle cut/copy/paste work?
All Seeing Eye
Admiral
Yep thats what it is, I did it in Paint, just thought i'd have a dabble with some pics and try to make some new class of ships.
Fire said:
Yep thats what it is, I did it in Paint, just thought i'd have a dabble with some pics and try to make some new class of ships.
Then, according to forum rules, you need to cite the source of the original images on each of your images.
All Seeing Eye
Admiral
I scanned them in from my Star Trek Fact Files. If the Mods are really bothered I haven't wrote that on the images they can by all means close the thread and ask me to remove the images from the board, I will happily oblige.
^^^
That's an overreaction and not necessary -- all you need to do is put a little note in the corner in the corner of each image stating: "Original images from Star Trek Fact Files." Check out the Trek Art FAQ for the guidelines. This is no different that attributing any other original source. You wouldn't like if I put up those images on my website and implied they were my original creation. As an artist, be respectful of your fellow artists (i.e., the artists at Star Trek Fact Files).
That's an overreaction and not necessary -- all you need to do is put a little note in the corner in the corner of each image stating: "Original images from Star Trek Fact Files." Check out the Trek Art FAQ for the guidelines. This is no different that attributing any other original source. You wouldn't like if I put up those images on my website and implied they were my original creation. As an artist, be respectful of your fellow artists (i.e., the artists at Star Trek Fact Files).
^ He (?) doesn't need to cite the source any more than he has (not even that, really). The citation rules are for the protection of fan authorship, not official sources. Otherwise, every piece of artwork featuring the original Enterprise ought to say 'Enterprise design by Matt Jeffries.'
Nive work, btw, Fire. Yours is the first fan Cardassian design I've yet seen that's actually looks like a potential Cardassian ship design.
Nive work, btw, Fire.
Yours is the first fan Cardassian design I've yet seen that's actually looks like a potential Cardassian ship design.
^^^
No, he took original images from Star Trek Fact Files (created by someone who had that publishing license) and simply cut 'n' pasted them to make something using those pieces. Saying that the artists at Star Trek Fact Files deserve less protection than fan artists here is scummy -- they're fellow artists. And the forum rules state that the credit for anything not original to the poster needs to appear on the images themselves:
Wouldn't you be upset if someone took your original drawing, cut 'n' pasted it a bit, and then called it their own without giving you credit?
No, he took original images from Star Trek Fact Files (created by someone who had that publishing license) and simply cut 'n' pasted them to make something using those pieces. Saying that the artists at Star Trek Fact Files deserve less protection than fan artists here is scummy -- they're fellow artists. And the forum rules state that the credit for anything not original to the poster needs to appear on the images themselves:
Wouldn't you be upset if someone took your original drawing, cut 'n' pasted it a bit, and then called it their own without giving you credit?
Have a look at the original Star Trek Fact Files images...
Copy-and-paste the URLs into your browser:
Neghvar: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/factfiles/neghvar-top.jpg
Galor: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/factfiles/galor-top.jpg
Copy-and-paste the URLs into your browser:
Neghvar: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/factfiles/neghvar-top.jpg
Galor: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/factfiles/galor-top.jpg
Then we'll just have to agree to disagree on this point.
^^^
I didn't make the rule or decide how it was worded in the FAQ. The rule states that citation is needed if the image contains any "elements that you yourself did not create" -- that clearly seems to apply to Fire's images, yes? Should this apply to Forbin's kitbashes? A strict interpretation would suggest that yes, he should, because it uses "elements" he did not create himself. I, though, am not the one who needs to decide what an "element" is -- Ptrope has to do that.
I didn't make the rule or decide how it was worded in the FAQ. The rule states that citation is needed if the image contains any "elements that you yourself did not create" -- that clearly seems to apply to Fire's images, yes? Should this apply to Forbin's kitbashes? A strict interpretation would suggest that yes, he should, because it uses "elements" he did not create himself. I, though, am not the one who needs to decide what an "element" is -- Ptrope has to do that.
(sigh)...
I'm sorry I brought it up.
Yes, it's polite to give proper credit for the original work... and the credit was given in the response to my original question. SO... I'm at a loss as to why this is still being "discussed."
I'd personally rather hear about the thoughts regarding the DESIGNS.
So, who else would agree with me? And who would rather bicker about the lack of a GRAPHICAL (versus written) "credit?"
As I said before... (sigh)...
I'm sorry I brought it up.
Yes, it's polite to give proper credit for the original work... and the credit was given in the response to my original question. SO... I'm at a loss as to why this is still being "discussed."
I'd personally rather hear about the thoughts regarding the DESIGNS.
So, who else would agree with me? And who would rather bicker about the lack of a GRAPHICAL (versus written) "credit?"
As I said before... (sigh)...
As far as copyright laws go, given the nature of the post, there are no rules being broken. He doesn't seem to be trying to make any money off of this. It's obviously a kit bash. And the original owners of the ship designs are paramount, or whoever created the ships...
It's like Star Trek fan films... As long as they don't do anything to make money off of their productions, they will pretty much be left alone.
Does Fact Files credit the 'original' creators of these images? Do they credit the person who 'drew' them and did that person credit the original creator?
As for the rules for the forum, I think we went off topic of what this thread was about. If we are going to be adhering to the rules perfectly, hell, 90% of the threads should be shut down due to rule violations. But the mods pick and choose their battles, and don't seem to nit pick.
For the record, I think they're pretty cool kit bashes. Using existing designs have never been a problemo with me. Opps. I mean problem.
I also used to be an archivist, and his lack of credit is not a huge detail. Fair use rules can easily be interpreted from Canadian and American copyright laws, and applied here.
It's like Star Trek fan films... As long as they don't do anything to make money off of their productions, they will pretty much be left alone.
Does Fact Files credit the 'original' creators of these images? Do they credit the person who 'drew' them and did that person credit the original creator?
As for the rules for the forum, I think we went off topic of what this thread was about. If we are going to be adhering to the rules perfectly, hell, 90% of the threads should be shut down due to rule violations. But the mods pick and choose their battles, and don't seem to nit pick.
For the record, I think they're pretty cool kit bashes. Using existing designs have never been a problemo with me. Opps. I mean problem.
I also used to be an archivist, and his lack of credit is not a huge detail. Fair use rules can easily be interpreted from Canadian and American copyright laws, and applied here.
We're not talking about copyright laws. We're talking about the Trek Art Forum Rules in the FAQ:
^
Yes Sonic Ranger, I understand- but to some degree, the forum rules are in place for liability purposes. They obviously want credit due where it is due, however with all due respect, kit bashing someone’s drawing that is based on an original work, hardly needs to be credited.
For example. If I take the Enterprise (let's say the E-D) and move around its parts, and post it here, who do I credit? The guy who drew the ship based on the guy who ORIGINALLY designed it?
It's not necessary to credit anyone in this case because it's become such a common image, that it almost falls into the public domain realm. Though there is one caveat- They can do this as long as the poster doesn't try to pass it off as his original concept, and doesn't try to make any $$$ off of it.
The poster made no such claims. He posted his bashes. Cary asked a reasonable question, and Fire promptly gave credit to his source for the material. If you want to be technical about it, his source is not who the images (that Fire used to bash) belong to, unless the ORIGINAL creator posted them there.
I won't even get into the issue of derivative works. The lines get blurred when an original work is altered to the point that the creation in question becomes an original work in itself. Hell, that's most of Trek Art!
Yes Sonic Ranger, I understand- but to some degree, the forum rules are in place for liability purposes. They obviously want credit due where it is due, however with all due respect, kit bashing someone’s drawing that is based on an original work, hardly needs to be credited.
For example. If I take the Enterprise (let's say the E-D) and move around its parts, and post it here, who do I credit? The guy who drew the ship based on the guy who ORIGINALLY designed it?
It's not necessary to credit anyone in this case because it's become such a common image, that it almost falls into the public domain realm. Though there is one caveat- They can do this as long as the poster doesn't try to pass it off as his original concept, and doesn't try to make any $$$ off of it.
The poster made no such claims. He posted his bashes. Cary asked a reasonable question, and Fire promptly gave credit to his source for the material. If you want to be technical about it, his source is not who the images (that Fire used to bash) belong to, unless the ORIGINAL creator posted them there.
I won't even get into the issue of derivative works. The lines get blurred when an original work is altered to the point that the creation in question becomes an original work in itself. Hell, that's most of Trek Art!
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