Klingon first contact

[desfem79]

Well, every Klingon goes to Valhala, err, Stovokor after death. Kahless is just the chief honcho who meets and greets them. So he isn't more supernatural than the regular Klingon.

Not all Klingons go to Stovokor, there is also a Hell (forget the name) in the Klingon faith.

Sort of, after creating the first two Klingons, the power of the two Klingon hearts was so powerful, their force killed the Klingon gods. It's not like it was a act of deliberation on the Klingons part.

Jesus was nothing more either. Holy Trinity, yeah right.

Wrong, Jesus is god.

YMMV.

How does that work? Is Jesus just God playing Second Life?

She's right, basic Christian theology. lol.

 

[desfem79]

I figure the arrival of the Vulcans--at first perceived by the Earthlings as a peaceful, enlightened, almost monk-like people--would have spawned a new sort of "flower power" movement among the particularly bright-eyed and/or war weary. (And, if ENT is to be believed, I would guess even many of those new "flower children" would eventually, if reluctantly, come to understand what assholes the Vulcans really are. )

First encounter with the Klingons would likely inspired many fewer love beads and many more calls for increased defense spending.

In the real world, I think that first contact with the Vulcans would have resulted in the United States making efforts to subjugate the Vulcans, whereas first contact with the Klingons would have resulted in an arms deal, as bullets seem to be a lost (and terrifyingly effective) technology by the 23rd / 24th centuries.

lost? for good reason. Rifles we have today have a range of say 2kms. A standard Starfleet phaser array could reach from London to NYC and probably destroy half the city lol.. And it wouldn't leave decades of fallout like a nuke would.

 

[desfem79]

Whatever Kahless said, it came out of him, and it was not about some divine stuff. He's a philosopher at best, because Klingons don't have gods.

The Klingon Aristotle? lol..

 

[JirinPanthosa]

^ Although I often disagree with what politicians do, I definitely do not share your blanket negative opinion of my country.

The beauty of our country - yours and mine - is that we are free to have and express such diverse opinions. My opinion may not agree with yours, but in America, it is no less valid. :-D

America may have an undeserved sense of entitlement to meddle in any other country's affairs but they're not stupid enough to attack an obviously superior force that poses no threat to them. More likely they'd try to make an exclusive trade agreement with Vulcan so they alone benefit from contact.

Then they'd spy the crap out of them.

 

[USS Triumphant]

America may have an undeserved sense of entitlement to meddle in any other country's affairs but they're not stupid enough to attack an obviously superior force that poses no threat to them. More likely they'd try to make an exclusive trade agreement with Vulcan so they alone benefit from contact.

Then they'd spy the crap out of them.

See, this is what I getting at. Except, I thought the spying part went without saying. So good looking out, there.

 

[PicardSpeedo]

I figure the arrival of the Vulcans--at first perceived by the Earthlings as a peaceful, enlightened, almost monk-like people--would have spawned a new sort of "flower power" movement among the particularly bright-eyed and/or war weary. (And, if ENT is to be believed, I would guess even many of those new "flower children" would eventually, if reluctantly, come to understand what assholes the Vulcans really are. )

First encounter with the Klingons would likely inspired many fewer love beads and many more calls for increased defense spending.

In the real world, I think that first contact with the Vulcans would have resulted in the United States making efforts to subjugate the Vulcans, whereas first contact with the Klingons would have resulted in an arms deal, as bullets seem to be a lost (and terrifyingly effective) technology by the 23rd / 24th centuries.

lost? for good reason. Rifles we have today have a range of say 2kms. A standard Starfleet phaser array could reach from London to NYC and probably destroy half the city lol.. And it wouldn't leave decades of fallout like a nuke would.

And yet, phasers don't kill Borg dead nearly as effectively as a holographic 1920s Tommygun does. If I ever board a Borg cube, I'm leaving the phaser rifle and bringing a Kalashnikov.

 

[mtblillie]

I don't see how a rifle compares to a ship's phaser array. I'm pretty sure a handheld phaser couldn't reach from London to NYC, the whole line of sight thing not withstanding.

 

[USS Triumphant]

I don't see how a rifle compares to a ship's phaser array. I'm pretty sure a handheld phaser couldn't reach from London to NYC, the whole line of sight thing not withstanding.

One of our moon missions *did* leave a mirror on the lunar surface, you know.

 

[mtblillie]

And yet, phasers don't kill Borg dead nearly as effectively as a holographic 1920s Tommygun does. If I ever board a Borg cube, I'm leaving the phaser rifle and bringing a Kalashnikov.

If a standard forcefield can stop a person from walking through and a ship's sheilds can stop a sideswipe by debris, I'm pretty sure the Borg's personal forcefields could stop bullets. It would be more likely that they had never encountered a small solid object traveling at such a speed as to penetrate the individual's body...though that seems pretty unlikely, given that Firearms have existed on Earth far longer than the even Phasers would have in the History of Star Trek (six centuries vs 3 and a half centuries).

 

[JarodRussell]

The idea is that at some point a civilization is so sophisticated that a very simple technology can cause a lot of trouble. Stargate had that as well. Shields that work against energy weapons but not against bullets or knives. The forcefield iris at Atlantis gate that wastes energy and the simple mechanical iris at Earth gate that doesn't need any energy. Stuff like that.
Heck, currently we see this in touchscreen displays compared to traditional keyboards. Like functionality in winter at extremely cold, or the handling with gloves. Simpler is sometimes better.

 

[PicardSpeedo]

The idea is that at some point a civilization is so sophisticated that a very simple technology can cause a lot of trouble. Stargate had that as well. Shields that work against energy weapons but not against bullets or knives. The forcefield iris at Atlantis gate that wastes energy and the simple mechanical iris at Earth gate that doesn't need any energy. Stuff like that.
Heck, currently we see this in touchscreen displays compared to traditional keyboards. Like functionality in winter at extremely cold, or the handling with gloves. Simpler is sometimes better.

We even saw this in Star Trek - think about how Kirk's Enterprise had buttons and switches, whereas Picard's had all touchscreens. Guess who still has access to his control panels when the power goes out? Not Picard.

 

[USS Triumphant]

We even saw this in Star Trek - think about how Kirk's Enterprise had buttons and switches, whereas Picard's had all touchscreens. Guess who still has access to his control panels when the power goes out? Not Picard.

Which, honestly, that is silly. If they have portable power batteries capable of allowing a phaser to fire multiple shots, they can sure as heck have local batteries that would keep the displays running and control panels sending control signals in the event of a main power outage. Now whether the stuff they are sending the signals to, whether those signals are sent by a touchscreen or by a toggle switch, would have power to respond, is a targ of a different color.

 

[PicardSpeedo]

We even saw this in Star Trek - think about how Kirk's Enterprise had buttons and switches, whereas Picard's had all touchscreens. Guess who still has access to his control panels when the power goes out? Not Picard.

Which, honestly, that is silly. If they have portable power batteries capable of allowing a phaser to fire multiple shots, they can sure as heck have local batteries that would keep the displays running and control panels sending control signals in the event of a main power outage. Now whether the stuff they are sending the signals to, whether those signals are sent by a touchscreen or by a toggle switch, would have power to respond, is a targ of a different color.

There is some circumstantial evidence to suggest that the toggles may work when the lights go out. I can think of a number of occasions when part of the ship would go dark and Kirk would immediately jump to a control panel. On TNG, when that happens, they tend to stand around looking helpless.

 

[USS Triumphant]

We even saw this in Star Trek - think about how Kirk's Enterprise had buttons and switches, whereas Picard's had all touchscreens. Guess who still has access to his control panels when the power goes out? Not Picard.

Which, honestly, that is silly. If they have portable power batteries capable of allowing a phaser to fire multiple shots, they can sure as heck have local batteries that would keep the displays running and control panels sending control signals in the event of a main power outage. Now whether the stuff they are sending the signals to, whether those signals are sent by a touchscreen or by a toggle switch, would have power to respond, is a targ of a different color.

There is some circumstantial evidence to suggest that the toggles may work when the lights go out. I can think of a number of occasions when part of the ship would go dark and Kirk would immediately jump to a control panel. On TNG, when that happens, the tend to stand around looking helpless.

See, that's what I'm saying, though - with their battery tech, the idea that the consoles would even go out at all (short of something that disrupts electrical flow in general, which would also disable toggles) is just dumb dumb dumb.

 

[PicardSpeedo]

Which, honestly, that is silly. If they have portable power batteries capable of allowing a phaser to fire multiple shots, they can sure as heck have local batteries that would keep the displays running and control panels sending control signals in the event of a main power outage. Now whether the stuff they are sending the signals to, whether those signals are sent by a touchscreen or by a toggle switch, would have power to respond, is a targ of a different color.

There is some circumstantial evidence to suggest that the toggles may work when the lights go out. I can think of a number of occasions when part of the ship would go dark and Kirk would immediately jump to a control panel. On TNG, when that happens, the tend to stand around looking helpless.

See, that's what I'm saying, though - with their battery tech, the idea that the consoles would even go out at all (short of something that disrupts electrical flow in general, which would also disable toggles) is just dumb dumb dumb.

I agree, and I have no idea what happened between TOS and TNG that prompted the elimination of battery backup systems. In The Voyage Home, the USS Saratoga had enough battery backups to withstand the Whale Probe, and her captain makes reference to constructing a solar sail as a contingency device. None of that tech is even referenced in TNG.

 

[T'Girl]

TNG Enterprise did have a emergency battery backup, unfortunately it was wired through the same system responsible for ejecting the warp core.

 

[mtblillie]

TNG Enterprise did have a emergency battery backup, unfortunately it was wired through the same system responsible for ejecting the warp core.

Agreed, trek has way too many overused plot devices full of holes. I like how when everything works perfectly they talk about having like four backups for every major system. I also thought it was funny how every possible system could go out on the ship except life support and gravity. I get that life support is the single most important tech on the ship, but there are many other important parts of the ship that could be protected in the same way. Also gravity isnt as important in the short term, though I understand the whole production aspect of that part of it. (I did really like that on ENT there were handrails everywhere in case the gravity did fail)

 

[T'Girl]

I also thought it was funny how every possible system could go out on the ship except life support and gravity.

The funny thing about life support is, if it went out the immediate reaction should have been "no problem." At least not an immediate one, the Enteprise Dee was huge and given it's compliment of a thousand the air should have lasted for weeks, especially if they could have gotten some simple air circulation fans running.

In time there would have been a problem yes, but there should never have been this "oh my God the life support just failed."

 

[USS Triumphant]

I admittedly can't remember where I read this - I think it might have been Mr. Scott's Guide - but the gravity plating under the deck flooring on Federation ships is made of some material that doesn't require a power source to keep doing its thing. Which is why they could beam over to a derelict ship and not have problems with that there, either.

I guess from Star Trek VI that the Klingons do not have this wonder material.