Klingon Ambassador Scene in ST IV
- Thread starter Amos
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The book gives a fairly simple answer: Maltz transmitted it all back to Quonos before killing himself to mitigate his dishonour.
The disappearance of Genesis from later events is a big plot hole: it doesn't work as hoped, creating new habitable worlds, but it does work as the Klingons fear, as a planet busting weapon.
The disappearance of Genesis from later events is a big plot hole: it doesn't work as hoped, creating new habitable worlds, but it does work as the Klingons fear, as a planet busting weapon.
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There are starkiller weapons in Trek, too. For some reason, wars still do not involve planeticide or astricide much.
Presumably it is simply bad form to kill planets. If you kill one, your enemy will kill a thousand in just retribution. Unless you only kill insignificant colonies, in which case you don't really need superweapons.
Genesis is a special projectile that guarantees planeticide with single hit. It is thus good for striking without warning, and improves your odds against alerted defenses, too. But if you kill somebody's planet with Genesis, he will simply come at you with a thousand starships, two of which will survive your defenses and turn your cities, fields and eventually every square inch of your crust to magma.
If you really want to off a civilization, you can nova-bomb it all the way to Hell; presumably quite a few civilizations went that way at some point. But it's a bit difficult to see the motivation. The opponent will cut back on annoying you if you simply threaten annihilation; you don't have to conduct it. Or if you want his empire, you can't get it with Genesis, which just blows up planets, or with Soran's trilithium warhead, which sterilizes them for good. You'd be far better off with bioweapons, say.
Timo Saloniemi
Presumably it is simply bad form to kill planets. If you kill one, your enemy will kill a thousand in just retribution. Unless you only kill insignificant colonies, in which case you don't really need superweapons.
Genesis is a special projectile that guarantees planeticide with single hit. It is thus good for striking without warning, and improves your odds against alerted defenses, too. But if you kill somebody's planet with Genesis, he will simply come at you with a thousand starships, two of which will survive your defenses and turn your cities, fields and eventually every square inch of your crust to magma.
If you really want to off a civilization, you can nova-bomb it all the way to Hell; presumably quite a few civilizations went that way at some point. But it's a bit difficult to see the motivation. The opponent will cut back on annoying you if you simply threaten annihilation; you don't have to conduct it. Or if you want his empire, you can't get it with Genesis, which just blows up planets, or with Soran's trilithium warhead, which sterilizes them for good. You'd be far better off with bioweapons, say.
Timo Saloniemi
It is a perfect reflection of world politics. Both sides always exaggerate the issues on the forum floor to score political points.
While Roddenberry was still alive? Nope.
(He died a few hours after viewing the ST VI work print.)
The only answer, and one which stretches credulity, is that only the Genesis team fully understood how it worked and those records were lost or destroyed when they fled the Reliant, and ultimately only Carol was left alive to tell...and she wasn't telling.
In the greater Trek context, lone mad scientists of that sort are fairly common. Somehow they scrape together the resources to construct working demonstrations ("Datalore", "A Matter of Perspective", "Quality of Life" etc.), but this may still conclude in a thumbs-down from the Federation and a refusal to accept the claims. In reverse, the mad scientists may well refuse to share their research until they get paid in whatever prestige credits apply.
Carol and David Marcus are recluses well fitting that mold. The big difference vis-á-vis the TNG clowns is that Starfleet isn't conducting skeptical inspections on them - it is lending them starship resources! One would expect the Marcuses to reciprocate with data that would allow people outside the team to not merely verify progress but also reconstruct Genesis even after Carol clamshells. Then again, perhaps not: David was able to keep the protomatter bit secret from the otherwise anointed, so outsiders clearly could not build Genesis out of publicized data yet.
Timo Saloniemi
Carol and David Marcus are recluses well fitting that mold. The big difference vis-á-vis the TNG clowns is that Starfleet isn't conducting skeptical inspections on them - it is lending them starship resources! One would expect the Marcuses to reciprocate with data that would allow people outside the team to not merely verify progress but also reconstruct Genesis even after Carol clamshells. Then again, perhaps not: David was able to keep the protomatter bit secret from the otherwise anointed, so outsiders clearly could not build Genesis out of publicized data yet.
Timo Saloniemi
I think it would be believable enough for the Enterprise's log buoy/ship's disaster recorder to be ejected on a trajectory to escape the planetary system and thereby the eventual destruction of the Genesis Planet when the destruct order is executed. What's missing is an order from Kirk for Chekov or Sulu to retrieve the log buoy before the Bird of Prey heads off to Vulcan (lest it fall into Klingon hands), although perhaps the buoy was recovered by Federation ships that arrived to explore the remains of the exploded planet and find out what happened to the Grissom.
I think it's pretty clear that the only way the Klingon Ambassador got ahold of Kirk's Genesis presentation is via espionage. The external shots of the Enterprise exploding (their being the dramatic footage from the movie STIII itself notwithstanding) seem to have come from the Bird of Prey itself, by that point also in Federation possession. So, again, spies. The same likewise for the disaster recorder footage.
Or then it's all fabricated. He really could have dramatized his presentation with an informative cartoon; he merely went one step further here.
He probably wouldn't even need to bother an actual professional in his staff for that. Cheap apps should be capable of dramatically editing footage even without prompting from the user, if not today, then certainly by May 2022, and absolutely in the 2280s. Creating said footage from scratch ought to be trivial, too. And "authenticity" or "veracity" would be definers the listeners would already be applying as regards what the Ambassador is saying. What he is showing should receive no differing treatment; there would be no brownie points awarded to those who would dismiss the video as bull just because it isn't "real", or to those rallying behind the Ambassador due to "the testimony of their very eyes"...
Timo Saloniemi
He probably wouldn't even need to bother an actual professional in his staff for that. Cheap apps should be capable of dramatically editing footage even without prompting from the user, if not today, then certainly by May 2022, and absolutely in the 2280s. Creating said footage from scratch ought to be trivial, too. And "authenticity" or "veracity" would be definers the listeners would already be applying as regards what the Ambassador is saying. What he is showing should receive no differing treatment; there would be no brownie points awarded to those who would dismiss the video as bull just because it isn't "real", or to those rallying behind the Ambassador due to "the testimony of their very eyes"...
Timo Saloniemi
I had gotten the impression that "there will be no peace" was the main reasoning behind his "personal glory".
His main motivation seemed to be his being tired of shooting space garbage and finally having the opportunity to fight a star fleet vessel.
The only real inference to the "no peace" was McCoy's comment of "and they don't particularly like you." And even that could refer to Kirk's history with them.
The only real inference to the "no peace" was McCoy's comment of "and they don't particularly like you." And even that could refer to Kirk's history with them.
As cliché as it sounds Klaa was desiring glory for himself, emulating Kor and other Klingons we had seen in the past. Klingons are not above pursuing personal honor and the death of Kirk would ensure that as well as for the Empire. Arne Darvin had a similar motivation.
Kirk overwrote Marcus’ introduction to Genesis perhaps to keep Carol out of it? He could very easily have said that she was one of Khan’s many victims. Cartwright himself may have suggested just such a thing to isolate her.
The Klingons see Kirk’s face on this and expect the worst after one of their ships was not just lost...but captured. The planet of galactic peace threatens both war fleets. Gorby and Reagan talking disarmament? Time for the handlers to separate them.
I really wish it had been Savvik instead of Valeris. This could bridge many stories.
From the Klingons point of view V’ger was an Earth ship that just kicked their ass, and now they have another so called whale probe....mmm...the flatheads are up to something. Section 31 maybe bluffs them into going out in a blaze of glory.
The TOS movies gel now
The Klingons see Kirk’s face on this and expect the worst after one of their ships was not just lost...but captured. The planet of galactic peace threatens both war fleets. Gorby and Reagan talking disarmament? Time for the handlers to separate them.
I really wish it had been Savvik instead of Valeris. This could bridge many stories.
From the Klingons point of view V’ger was an Earth ship that just kicked their ass, and now they have another so called whale probe....mmm...the flatheads are up to something. Section 31 maybe bluffs them into going out in a blaze of glory.
The TOS movies gel now
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