Pretty obvious trolling/flaming here. Infraction issued.
Comments to PM. etc.
Kirsten Beyer invitation in VOY forum
- Thread starter lurok
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Pretty obvious trolling/flaming here. Infraction issued.
Comments to PM. etc.
Perhaps if a few more posters admonish Brit and use some more hyperbolic language that will prevent future misunderstandings, but I doubt it.
Many ardent fans are used to having that type of adversial relationship with a corporate entity due to film and television. It is one of the enduring aspects of fandom: people get attached to fictional characters, start to have certain expectations, and then resent when creative choices are made that do not conform to those expectations.
In this case, it's not really a monolothic studio or corporate entity that is influencing creative decisions, but a few overworked editors and wacky freelancers as you say, but it's the same basic sentiment.
It can be frustrating to have no control over something that you care about. Every fan has been there to a certain degree at one time or another. The attitude of the BBJ crowd is really not all that hard to understand.
I can see that, but it's probably worth remembering that, most of the time, we are just talking about creative choices here, and not sinister corporate conspiracies. A distinction that sometimes get lost when emotions get heated.
This is not just a Trekkie thing, of course. Comics fans are possibly even more prone to conspiracy theories. Those boards often seem infested with fans who are utterly convinced that Marvel or DC are deliberately sabotaging their favorite characters, apparently out of sheer spite!
But I digress . . . .
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I'm a devoutly hyperbolic BBKJ'er. I enjoy having a near religious devotion to fictional character(s). It's like RPG in my head 24/7. It amuses me greatly. It's spiritual junk food.
PAD did not murder my dreams. I don't need anyone else to write my dreams for me, thank you very much. PAD did murder, or at least grievously injure, my Trek lit buying habits. That book was horribly written, so bad I can't believe they published it. It actually made me re-evaluate my automatic purchase of new Trek lit (16.95 a book here) because while the PAD book was the worst thing I've ever read I had to admit that a lot of other Trek lit was pretty sub par as well.
I've said it before, maybe if Janeway's death had been written in a way that made me cry rather than throw that piece of crap writing across the room in disgust I would have accepted it. How can you kill off a major character in such a shoddily written piece of drivel? Isn't there any sense of responsibility towards how it is done?
I still get all teary at Kirk's "Oh my.."
Anyway, enough about ME.. BRING BACK KATHRYN JANEWAY.
PAD did not murder my dreams. I don't need anyone else to write my dreams for me, thank you very much. PAD did murder, or at least grievously injure, my Trek lit buying habits. That book was horribly written, so bad I can't believe they published it. It actually made me re-evaluate my automatic purchase of new Trek lit (16.95 a book here) because while the PAD book was the worst thing I've ever read I had to admit that a lot of other Trek lit was pretty sub par as well.
I've said it before, maybe if Janeway's death had been written in a way that made me cry rather than throw that piece of crap writing across the room in disgust I would have accepted it. How can you kill off a major character in such a shoddily written piece of drivel? Isn't there any sense of responsibility towards how it is done?
I still get all teary at Kirk's "Oh my.."
Anyway, enough about ME.. BRING BACK KATHRYN JANEWAY.
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^ (Oh boy I bet this won't work, but I can't help myself...) If that's true, you might really want to give Full Circle a try. I know, I know, but really. Because in that book, Beyer fleshes out Janeway's motivation and the crew's reaction, and her death DOES end up having meaning. You'll definitely get a little teary.
I'm telling you: Beyer is an amazing writer, she DOES have the sense of responsibility you speak of, and Voyager is probably the best TrekLit series coming out right now. Really: if the only thing that made you definitively turn away was PAD's writing, you might be missing out.
I'm telling you: Beyer is an amazing writer, she DOES have the sense of responsibility you speak of, and Voyager is probably the best TrekLit series coming out right now. Really: if the only thing that made you definitively turn away was PAD's writing, you might be missing out.
I have read Full Circle and the one that came after it. I understand that it's a retcon to some extent trying to fix PAD's junkfest. I do like Beyer's writing, she isn't up there with my favorites (James Swallow, early KRAD, S.D. Perry, Cox) but I'm very happy she is writing for Trek lit.
But. The death and its circumstances and crappiness can't really be undone by having nice stuff happen afterwards. I'm sure someone can come up with positive political events that followed Kennedy's assassination but that doesn't make the assassination a good thing. Yah, I love my hyperbole.
I'm just totally over it, bring back Janeway, give her a desk job or write an epic trilogy with her on every page, I don't really care which. I'm sure she is sick to death of Lady Q by now.
But. The death and its circumstances and crappiness can't really be undone by having nice stuff happen afterwards. I'm sure someone can come up with positive political events that followed Kennedy's assassination but that doesn't make the assassination a good thing. Yah, I love my hyperbole.
I'm just totally over it, bring back Janeway, give her a desk job or write an epic trilogy with her on every page, I don't really care which. I'm sure she is sick to death of Lady Q by now.
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Fair enough.
And, for what it's worth, I can't imagine any of the Militant Keep Janeway Dead-ers, or whatever, would have any problem with any post like that; I certainly don't. It's the "Pocket is an evil company full of misogynists killing our dreams on purpose" thing that's bothersome.
And, for what it's worth, I can't imagine any of the Militant Keep Janeway Dead-ers, or whatever, would have any problem with any post like that; I certainly don't. It's the "Pocket is an evil company full of misogynists killing our dreams on purpose" thing that's bothersome.
The only part I would agree with is.. Pocket is a company. And I guess that's why they can churn out crap at times, because there's no real reason not to, when people like me buy it. That's not going to be happening in the future however.
Wouldn't it be more fair to say that sometimes a book just doesn't turn out as well as everyone wants it to, even when everyone gives it their best shot, and that this is an inevitable result of all human endeavors, not a result of Pocket being a company?
It's insulting to a writer that company would read drivel and publish it anyway? It does reflect badly on the whole franchise and in that respect it could be seen as insulting.
One person's drivel is another's comic-inspired, Whedonesque romp. Shrug.
I mean, don't get me wrong, I totally understand hating Before Dishonor. But I thought it was a riot. I, on the other hand, rather disliked the book after that one, Greater Than The Sum, where most thought it was a fantastic return to form. So, you know, either way.
I will say that Margaret Clark made some obvious and seemingly trivially avoidable errors with the whole thing; I wasn't especially impressed with her work. For that matter, Typhon Pact didn't wow me either. Perhaps it's good the franchise is in someone else's hands at this point.
I mean, don't get me wrong, I totally understand hating Before Dishonor. But I thought it was a riot. I, on the other hand, rather disliked the book after that one, Greater Than The Sum, where most thought it was a fantastic return to form. So, you know, either way.
I will say that Margaret Clark made some obvious and seemingly trivially avoidable errors with the whole thing; I wasn't especially impressed with her work. For that matter, Typhon Pact didn't wow me either. Perhaps it's good the franchise is in someone else's hands at this point.
Exactly.
No, it's needlessly insulting to Peter David and Margaret Clark to assume that they didn't try their best, even if the end result ended up not working, and to instead attribute to them laziness and apathy.
I feel like I've been reading the Typhon pact for months.. which I have. I contrast this with the Terok Nor trilogy which I could not put down.
You're in Australia, aren't you? Our healthy Aussie dollar means that "Voyager: Children of the Storm" and "Vanguard: Declassified" have come down to $13.95, even with the air-freight added in.
Peter David did not try his best, of that I am sure. I am not a Peter David fan but I have read a goodly number of his books and that book read like it was written on a toilet with someone banging on the door. Even those who liked the book would probably agree that it was not his best work and in fact one of his poorer ones.
He wrote the book. Tried his best.. I don't think so. As to laziness and apathy, never said either of those things. Why it sucked so bad I have no idea, perhaps he was going through some personal shit and just churned the thing out to get it over with. Perhaps he is sick of the franchise and it was apathy.
Or I could buy them from Bookdespository.co.uk for 8.03 cents with no postage. I'm kicking myself I spent so much over the years without knowing about this site.
But I won't be buying any Treklit new until Janeway is alive again. I'll be buying a used copy of Children of the Storm from ebay.
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