Kirk's jump in rank makes sense

[Seska]

That still doesn't make his promotion make sense, because from the birth of the Federation until at least Riker's time on the Enterprse D, the original Kirk had set the record for becoming captain. And that record was several years between graduation and promotion to captain...
The problem with this is not only that it's absurd on the face of it, but any and all explanations offered fall short of explaining why nobody else, ever, in the history of Starfleet, has managed to do the same thing.

"Tryla Scott. It's said you made Captain faster than anyone in Starfleet history, present company included. Are you that good?" The Picard, Conspiracy

Present company includes The Picard, who got his seat at 28. That makes Scott just about nuKirk's age or even YOUNGER. It's funny that The Picard would ask Scott if she was "that good" rather than "that experienced".

How anyone can call themselves a fan be completely unaware of the fact that Starfleet rank is based on modern day military rank is beyond me. And I really don't understand how having watched Star Trek for thirty years plus isn't long enough to understand the ranking system.

nUhura calls what we experienced in Star Trek 11 an "alternate reality". Another alternate reality was experienced in Mirror, Mirror, and in that alternate reality, of all the things they could have changed, one of them was the method of promotion. There, it was by assassination.

If the Trek has taught us that alternate realities can bring about different methods of promotion, why would any of us think that the alternate reality of 11 means that promotions must be handled precisely the same as our modern day military? It's really a stretch, especially from someone purporting to have superior knowledge of the Trek.

As I said before, though, I suspect the promotion we saw was temporary. Once Pike returns to command, Kirk will probably go back to the rank he was before.

"They don't usually go through the ceremony if it's just a temporary assignment."

Love,
Will Riker

 

[J.T.B.]

I'd always taken the TMoST reference to mean that Kirk commanded that destroyer as a Lieutenant Commander or Commander, personally, and that "youngest captain" meant that he was the youngest officer to achieve a command when he commanded that ship, not when he made Captain's rank or when he was on the Enterprise.

It says youngest to achieve "Starship" command, capital S, which in TOS-period materials pretty much means one of the "twelve," but YMMV. Agreed that the earlier command was probably as a LCdr or Cdr.

Well, since this clearly became a point of contention and I skimmed over it, allow me to clarify - I could see this working in a military where the ranks and regs aren't very strictly adhered to. In my mind, this was a Hornblower-era navy, but from the little Hornblower I've read I can appreciate your objection here.

The RN rank structure was different then, to be sure, but there were definite rules and standards for promotion. There were ways to cut corners if you had the right family or political connections, but command at sea required so much specialized expertise the standards were for the most part taken seriously.

Hornblower had the required six years at sea as a middie before taking the lieutenant's examination, then a few years as a lieutenant, a couple years as commander in the little sloop Hotspur, then made post and spent a couple more years in Atropos, which wasn't much bigger than Hotspur, before getting a real frigate. Say around ten years for his first command, and about 12 to make captain. Pretty fast, though not unheard of at the time. But more to the point, there was a definite progression of increasing responsibility, from supervising a division of sailors at sea, to a small landing party, to a prize crew and so on. The way in which Hornblower learns the ropes, makes mistakes, learns lesson, gains confidence and grows into a capable leader is very effectively presented and believable.

--Justin

 

[shockwave1a]

Novice typing here...

Honestly I would not see Kirk promoted to capt @ the end of the movie. But in the sequel Pike could get into that accident talked about in TOS "The Menagerie." Spock would be 2nd officer? And Kirk would be the XO/No. 1? Then during the middle or climax of the movie Kirk is acting capt. then officially promoted.

Just a thought..but TOO LATE!!

 

[Holodoc]

That still doesn't make his promotion make sense, because from the birth of the Federation until at least Riker's time on the Enterprse D, the original Kirk had set the record for becoming captain. And that record was several years between graduation and promotion to captain...
The problem with this is not only that it's absurd on the face of it, but any and all explanations offered fall short of explaining why nobody else, ever, in the history of Starfleet, has managed to do the same thing.

"Tryla Scott. It's said you made Captain faster than anyone in Starfleet history, present company included. Are you that good?" The Picard, Conspiracy

Present company includes The Picard, who got his seat at 28. That makes Scott just about nuKirk's age or even YOUNGER. It's funny that The Picard would ask Scott if she was "that good" rather than "that experienced".

In the face of actual evidence, I must of course concede at least a part of the point. By the time of Conspiracy, at least, Kirk was no longer the 'youngest captain in Starfleet', if indeed he ever had been.

However, there's still nothing in that which is necessarily incompatible with my own points. The utterly simple expedient of assuming that Scott entered the Academy at 18 makes it work perfectly with what Pike says in this film; through the academy in four years, a ship in another four. If Scott enters the Academy at 18, she graduates at 22, and recieves her captaincy at 26. She is simultaneously then the youngest captain in Starfleet and perfectly in keeping with the fast but reasonable rise Pike predicts for Kirk.

As for why he would ask if she was 'that good' rather than 'that experienced', we can simply look back at what Pike would have considered reasonable for a brilliant applicant. She's advanced as fast as Kirk could have; the question then becomes less 'are you qualified' and more 'are you really that awesome'. And by the time of Conspiracy Picard was sixty years old. He had probably started falling prey to that most human of failings, mistrust of a younger generation.