Kirk's First Command?
- Thread starter Albertese
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I'm afraid we are applying too much retroactive thinking here, which has partially been influenced by the inflation of the term "starship" because of Star Wars and others ("Princess Leia's starship") in the past decades.
Unless someone can tell differently, I believe that 1960's terminology was mostly referring to rocketships, spacecraft and spaceships, so "starship" had a special connotation to it (and was the name for that ill-fated TV series proposal in the 1970's by Gene Roddenberry).
So I'd say that should the context in which to discuss the issue.
Bob
Unless someone can tell differently, I believe that 1960's terminology was mostly referring to rocketships, spacecraft and spaceships, so "starship" had a special connotation to it (and was the name for that ill-fated TV series proposal in the 1970's by Gene Roddenberry).
So I'd say that should the context in which to discuss the issue.
Bob
IMHO the backstory from TMoST pure conjecture, no more valid than the novels and comics that have later postulated non-destroyer first commands for Kirk. The Enterprise could even be his first command, since I don't recall any canon mention of a prior one.
My point is I wouldn't get too hung up on how the term starship is utilized in TOS.
Some have interpreted Dehner's line in WNMHGB as meaning that.
Yes. I think it does affirm the point. It also makes much more sense that an officer would have to have at least some prior command experience before being given command of one of Starfleet's best ships.
Dehner's line is delivered in such a way as to suggest that she's talking about another ship...and a previous, more military-oriented command is strongly implied in "Whom Gods Destroy", when Garth praises Kirk as having been a great military commander, to which Kirk responds, "I'm mostly an explorer now."
But for all we know, all that means is that Kirk was in command of the Enterprise during a more militaristic time in recent history (i.e. the Federation-Klingon conflict which ended in "Errand of Mercy"), and then after that incident there was more time for exploration missions.
It's my opinion as well that the Enterprise was Kirk's first command. He does mention two other ship that he served on in the past (but not as captain), but never mentions a previous command. If the Republic was Ensign Kirk's first assignment after graduating the academy in 2254, and the Farragut was Lt. Kirk's second assignment in 2257, and was captain of the Enterprise at least by 2265, that doesn't leave a whole lot of wiggle room between being a lieutenant and a starship captain (unless he was in command of the ship without having the rank of captain).
TOS had a sense of credibility to its universe and world building rather than the arbitrariness of something like JJtrek. In the TOS universe you have to train, gain experience through various postings and earn your stripes to rise in rank. This is backed up by how things are generally portrayed in the series and the biography of Kirk (taken from the Writer's Guide) seen in The Making Of Star Trek. So it makes perfect sense that Kirk had to prove himself before being posted to command one of Starfleet's best ships.
Unlike JJtrek where a cadet punk gets rewarded the top prize simply for being lucky.
I'll take the TOS version of events, thank you. There's more sanity there.
It's a matter of underlining how Gene Roddenberry and the writers approached Star Trek in terms of world building. Yes, Kirk is an exceptional commander...to a point. He still has to go through the stages like any other Starfleet officer and that includes rising in rank to command. Kirk's biography outlines him having a prior command and it's referenced in WNMHGB. That's what GR wanted and that's how it's put across. And it makes sense.
In today's world (or that of the 1960s) no neophyte without prior command experience will be posted as Captain of an aircraft carrier or battleship. You have to earn that position. And GR wanted to get that parallel idea across in TOS as well.
Assuming that the Constitution-class was Starfleet's best ship class.
Some trek fans for some reason have a need to complain about the JJ films in most threads regardless of whether or not it has anything to do with the topic or that fact that it's kind of annoying to still be complaining about the film after 5 years.
This doesn't even deserve a response.
^Sorry, but he's right. You quoted my post when you responded with your diatribe against JJTrek when my post had absolutely nothing to do with it. If you were trying to take my post out of context just to make some rant about Abrams, I don't appreciate that. I could care less whether you like JJTrek or hate it; was talking about Kirk from the prime universe just like everyone else in this post. And I don't recall the OP being about a comparison between the two.
TOS had an amazing amount of subtext to it. A lot of referencing and suggesting what lay "beyond the bulkhead" so to speak. This is particularly true in terms of its world building. GR sketched out a biographical outline for Kirk in the Writer's Guide which includes a reference to his first command of an equivalent of a "destroyer class vessel." And this biographical reference is re-affirmed in Dehner's spoken reference in WNMHGB as well as the more indirect reference in "Whom Gods Destroy."
It hangs together credibly in the kind of universe GR and TOS are trying to depict. I see no reason to dispute it.
It hangs together credibly in the kind of universe GR and TOS are trying to depict. I see no reason to dispute it.
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