Kirk Enterprise - the Enterprise(a)?

[SeerSGB]

I think from Decker's perspective, the Enterprise is a new ship after the refit.

I don't think so. They would had the photo of the before refit Enterprise separate from the pass Enterprises; And also Decker would had knew that the before refit Enterprise and the ship he is on are the same ships. Also, those who had put those photos on the Rec wall, would had know as well; And they would never had put a photo of a existing starship with past starships of the same name, regardless it had been refitted or not next to one another. They would had ben separate from each other, on different walls.

Never heard that line of thought before. The Connie on display is just showing the 1701 before her refit.

Maybe, but I don't think so. It could easily just as well be another Connie name Enterprise.

Actually they probably would. In TNG and Enterprise, the displays of "Ships Named Enterprise" always included the current version. So it's likely they just stuck the pre-refit configuration of the 1701 on the monitors for the same reason. Or them being monitors, they just scroll through the history of ships named Enterprise as a screensaver.

 

[Dukhat]

On ST:TMP, Captain Decker had said; All those vessels were call Enterprise. Were, is a past tense word. Meaning that the Constitution class looking starship in the picture is not the same Enterprise as the one they are on, but a different ship.

I believe you are the first person ever to speculate that the TOS Enterprise NCC-1701 and the TMP Enterprise NCC-1701 are two totally different ships, when the creators of TMP, the producers of Trek since then, and all fandom since has agreed that one was a refit of the other...simply because of Decker's (ambiguous?) choice of words?

 

[SeerSGB]

On ST:TMP, Captain Decker had said; All those vessels were call Enterprise. Were, is a past tense word. Meaning that the Constitution class looking starship in the picture is not the same Enterprise as the one they are on, but a different ship.

I believe you are the first person ever to speculate that the TOS Enterprise NCC-1701 and the TMP Enterprise NCC-1701 are two totally different ships, when the creators of TMP, the producers of Trek since then, and all fandom since has agreed that one was a refit of the other...simply because of Decker's (ambiguous?) choice of words?

Scotty makes it's clear on the trip over: 18 months redesigning and refitting the Enterprise.

 

[yenny]

On ST:TMP, Captain Decker had said; All those vessels were call Enterprise. Were, is a past tense word. Meaning that the Constitution class looking starship in the picture is not the same Enterprise as the one they are on, but a different ship.

I believe you are the first person ever to speculate that the TOS Enterprise NCC-1701 and the TMP Enterprise NCC-1701 are two totally different ships, when the creators of TMP, the producers of Trek since then, and all fandom since has agreed that one was a refit of the other...simply because of Decker's (ambiguous?) choice of words?

I didn't say that the TOS Enterprise NCC-1701 and the TMP Enterprise are different ships. I had said that the TOS/TMP Enterprise were a different ship of the Connie that was in the photo.

 

[Dukhat]

So if I'm understanding you correctly now, are you implying that there was another TOS Connie Enterprise before Kirk's TOS Connie Enterprise? That's even more unlikely.

 

[The Wormhole]

^^Although it does fit with Countdown to Darkness showing that there was indeed another Enterprise which really similar to the Constitution design likely before the 2233 timeline split.

However, I agree that the ship on the rec room's wall in TMP is the pre-refit Enterprise 1701. That's obviously what it was intended to be and the only improvising they did for other starships named Enterprise was the ringship.

 

[yenny]

I don't think so. They would had the photo of the before refit Enterprise separate from the pass Enterprises; And also Decker would had knew that the before refit Enterprise and the ship he is on are the same ships. Also, those who had put those photos on the Rec wall, would had know as well; And they would never had put a photo of a existing starship with past starships of the same name, regardless it had been refitted or not next to one another. They would had ben separate from each other, on different walls.

Maybe, but I don't think so. It could easily just as well be another Connie name Enterprise.

Actually they probably would. In TNG and Enterprise, the displays of "Ships Named Enterprise" always included the current version. So it's likely they just stuck the pre-refit configuration of the 1701 on the monitors for the same reason. Or them being monitors, they just scroll through the history of ships named Enterprise as a screensaver.

Yes you're right, but that is the current version of the Enterprise D. In TMP they didn't display the refit version.

On ST:TMP, Captain Decker had said; All those vessels were call Enterprise. Were, is a past tense word. Meaning that the Constitution class looking starship in the picture is not the same Enterprise as the one they are on, but a different ship.

I believe you are the first person ever to speculate that the TOS Enterprise NCC-1701 and the TMP Enterprise NCC-1701 are two totally different ships, when the creators of TMP, the producers of Trek since then, and all fandom since has agreed that one was a refit of the other...simply because of Decker's (ambiguous?) choice of words?

I didn't say that the TOS Enterprise NCC-1701 and the TMP Enterprise are different ships. I had said that the TOS/TMP Enterprise were a different ship of the Connie that was in the photo.

So if I'm understanding you correctly now, are you implying that there was another TOS Connie Enterprise before Kirk's TOS Connie Enterprise? That's even more unlikely.

Yes I do. And I also believe that the USS Constitution NCC-1700 isn't the prototype but a replacement of the prototype. I also believe that the Connies had enter into service a few years after the Federation was founded, between 2162 to 2170.

 

[yenny]

Maybe, but I don't think so. It could easily just as well be another Connie name Enterprise.

Actually they probably would. In TNG and Enterprise, the displays of "Ships Named Enterprise" always included the current version. So it's likely they just stuck the pre-refit configuration of the 1701 on the monitors for the same reason. Or them being monitors, they just scroll through the history of ships named Enterprise as a screensaver.

Yes you're right, but that is the current version of the Enterprise D. In TMP they didn't display the refit version.

I didn't say that the TOS Enterprise NCC-1701 and the TMP Enterprise are different ships. I had said that the TOS/TMP Enterprise were a different ship of the Connie that was in the photo.

So if I'm understanding you correctly now, are you implying that there was another TOS Connie Enterprise before Kirk's TOS Connie Enterprise? That's even more unlikely.

Yes I do. And I also believe that the USS Constitution NCC-1700 isn't the prototype but a replacement of the prototype. I also believe that the Connies had enter into service a few years after the Federation was founded, between 2162 to 2170.

^^Although it does fit with Countdown to Darkness showing that there was indeed another Enterprise which really similar to the Constitution design likely before the 2233 timeline split.

However, I agree that the ship on the rec room's wall in TMP is the pre-refit Enterprise 1701. That's obviously what it was intended to be and the only improvising they did for other starships named Enterprise was the ringship.

Actually I've never had believe that the ship on the rec room wall was pre-refit of the refitted Enterprise, but was another ship.

In the real Star fleet, there would had been a starship name Enterprise, that was in service between NX-01 and 1701.

 

[BillJ]

In the real Star fleet, there would had been a starship name Enterprise, that was in service between NX-01 and 1701.

While I'm not for or against another Enterprise, I don't see there being a problem with a gap between ships...

The U.S. just retired the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise and there won't be another one in service before 2025 at the earliest. In universe, there was no Enterprise from 2344-2363 between the NCC-1701-C and NCC-1701-D.

 

[Dukhat]

^^Although it does fit with Countdown to Darkness showing that there was indeed another Enterprise which really similar to the Constitution design likely before the 2233 timeline split.

April's Enterprise in that comic was a) built after Nero's incursion in the timeline, and b) looks almost exactly like the nuEnterprise, not the TOS one shown in the Enterprise history photos Decker shows Ilia. Even if we take the comic to be canonical, we still don't know if April's Enterprise exists in the prime timeline, or if it does, what it actually looked like.

And I also believe that the USS Constitution NCC-1700 isn't the prototype but a replacement of the prototype. I also believe that the Connies had enter into service a few years after the Federation was founded, between 2162 to 2170.

While I don't agree with your assessment at all (i.e. I believe there was no other Enterprise between the NX-01 and Kirk's TOS NCC-1701 regardless of what some tie-in comic shows or how one chooses to interpret Decker's use of words), I will state that there is also no canonical evidence that the U.S.S. Constitution's registry number is NCC-1700. Therefore the class could be older than previously known, as you infer, if registries are chronological. However, I seriously doubt that the class is as old as the founding of the Federation.

 

[publiusr]

I think that Aridas and other postulated an non-Stargazer Constellation class that came before the consitution class. I might consider the three footer with the flat top and bottom saucer to be part of this. Shaw showed alternative nacelle mounting points where the naceles were swapped . Datin had them high on the mounts, where others had it lower down. The AMT model shown on screen might be considered a refit.

 

[abaldwin360]

Do we know for SURE that the original 1701 was built in 2245? IIRC, there's no canon reference to the year that it was constructed.

In any case, even if it was built in that year in the prime timeline, Starfleet may have decided to build it earlier in the Abramsverse. The same ship, built in 2233 rather than 2245. Or something like that.

That's what I'm guessing. The Abramsverse Starfleet was on track to design the Constitution Class as we knew her UNTIL the Kelvin disaster (and the scans from the Nerada) forced them to scrap everything and start over from scratch. In the meantime, it was easy to slap existing Kelvin-era technology together in the intended configuration and launch that using the already-reserved names as a stopgap until the new Constitution v2 were finally ready. So April's Enterprise likely launched a decade early (2235), looking pretty much as Tobias Richter kitbashed her (check out the bottom three pics in the link):

http://www.startrek.pl/article.php?sid=680

Wow. I would have been totally okay with the Enterprise looking like that.

 

[Ovation]

Not me. But, to each his own. Actually, I wouldn't have cared all that much--I'm not a big "starship fan" per se. However, if I have to choose between the two, the one that was actually in the movie is considerably better to me.

 

[The Wormhole]

^^Although it does fit with Countdown to Darkness showing that there was indeed another Enterprise which really similar to the Constitution design likely before the 2233 timeline split.

April's Enterprise in that comic was a) built after Nero's incursion in the timeline, and b) looks almost exactly like the nuEnterprise, not the TOS one shown in the Enterprise history photos Decker shows Ilia. Even if we take the comic to be canonical, we still don't know if April's Enterprise exists in the prime timeline, or if it does, what it actually looked like.

Actually, they're not really very clear about when it was built. Yes, the flashback scene is set after 2233, but April's Enterprise was decommissioned two years before the "present day" of the comic, and 20 years seems too short a timeframe for a starship's service life. NASA's space shuttles lasted longer. April's Enterprise may well have been launched as early as the 2200s, and April says he had been a Captain for ten years when he first arrived at Phaedus, though admittedly that does not mean captain of the Enterprise the whole time.

 

[Cap.GRPrime1701]

Looks like the original Constitution Class design did exist in this Alt Universe.

This image is from a deleted scene depicting a model of a Constitution class starship over Marcus's office.

So maybe there was an Enterprise between the NX-01 and Pine's Kirk's Enterprise.

So after the destruction of the USS Kelvin, the Constitution class wasn't delayed like we once thought, but still went through in time, with one of the ships being the USS Enterprise, which was destined to be the one Shatner's Kirk got in the original universe. In this universe, April had it for a time before it got decommissioned early and replaced with the new Enterprise Pine's Kirk got.

 

[SeerSGB]

Looks like the original Constitution Class design did exist in this Alt Universe.

This image is from a deleted scene depicting a model of a Constitution class starship over Marcus's office.

So maybe there was an Enterprise between the NX-01 and Pine's Kirk's Enterprise.

So after the destruction of the USS Kelvin, the Constitution class wasn't delayed like we once thought, but still went through in time, with one of the ships being the USS Enterprise, which was destined to be the one Shatner's Kirk got in the original universe. In this universe, April had it for a time before it got decommissioned early and replaced with the new Enterprise Pine's Kirk got.

Sweet. Seems odd seeing one with the NCC-0XXX markings, still nice nod.

 

[M'Sharak]

Looks like the original Constitution Class design did exist in this Alt Universe.

This image is from a deleted scene depicting a model of a Constitution class starship over Marcus's office.

So maybe there was an Enterprise between the NX-01 and Pine's Kirk's Enterprise.

So after the destruction of the USS Kelvin, the Constitution class wasn't delayed like we once thought, but still went through in time, with one of the ships being the USS Enterprise, which was destined to be the one Shatner's Kirk got in the original universe. In this universe, April had it for a time before it got decommissioned early and replaced with the new Enterprise Pine's Kirk got.

Sweet. Seems odd seeing one with the NCC-0XXX markings, still nice nod.

The screencap may be from a deleted scene, but didn't that number appear elsewhere in the movie?

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/NCC-0718

 

[Dukhat]

If it's a deleted scene, then it isn't canon. However, it's certainly interesting. Since the nuEnterprise is a Constitution class ship, then what is this ship?

And the registry is even more odd. It's the same as the Newton-type ship docked at the space station (and probably has the same name). Along with Science Officer 0718, this must be some in-joke.

And what the heck does that ship's name read? To me it looks like "BIDDEFORD," which is a city in Maine.

Here's my theory: this ship was supposed to be the replacement for the Newton-type ship, but was halted after Nero's incursion. That could also be why the Constellation in the prime universe has such a low registry - it was also named and registered in honor of a previous ship, and the "A," "B" etc. nonsense was only created later during the time period of the films.

 

[M'Sharak]

And what the heck does that ship's name read? To me it looks like "Biddeford," which is a city in Maine.

"Biddeford" was as close as I could get, but that part of the marking seems to have been blurred or obscured somewhat.

 

[cbspock]

Looks like the original Constitution Class design did exist in this Alt Universe.

This image is from a deleted scene depicting a model of a Constitution class starship over Marcus's office.

So maybe there was an Enterprise between the NX-01 and Pine's Kirk's Enterprise.

So after the destruction of the USS Kelvin, the Constitution class wasn't delayed like we once thought, but still went through in time, with one of the ships being the USS Enterprise, which was destined to be the one Shatner's Kirk got in the original universe. In this universe, April had it for a time before it got decommissioned early and replaced with the new Enterprise Pine's Kirk got.

So where can we find this shot??? Blu-ray? iTunes?? What version of the Blu release is this from?

-Chris