Kira's completely unlikeable

[Gul Re'jal]

Well, in the pilot when Sisko meets O'Brien and then goes to meet Kira O'Brien stops him and asks if he's ever worked with Bajoran women before, which to me indicated that he was commenting on her attitude and behavior. However, I don't think she was a bitch at all, and I think it was weird that O'Brien was stereotyping Bajoran women specifically instead of Bajorans as a whole. Usually Star Trek conveys a high level of species-stereotypes and a lower level of gender-stereotypes, but not in this case. Whatever.

I always thought O'Brien said that after the Enterprise had some fun with pleasant and super-friendly Ro Laren. Not as much as stereotyping, as speaking from his personal experience.

 

[Ghost Bones]

Did we see him have any personal contact with Ro? I mean, the impression from TNG is that all the main cast are pally and know each other and everyone on the ship where relevant, but with O'Brien and Ro being secondary cast members working in different sections, there's a good chance they may not have known each other. Of course, if there was any scene of the both of them then that invalidates all that. Or if he mentioned Ro specifically. I've not seen Emissary for quite a long time, I must confess.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Oh, there was... "Disaster..." He didn't like how she didn't follow procedure and she basically called him an idiot.

 

[tighr]

Oh, there was... "Disaster..." He didn't like how she didn't follow procedure and she basically called him an idiot.

Haha that was a great episode. You got the smart enlisted guy having to take orders from an idiot Ensign, and the Ensign has the balls to get upset over taking orders from the even bigger idiot Lt. Cmdr. All of which could have been avoided had the Lieutenant at the helm not gotten herself killed.

Here's a fun fact: Troi was at the helm both times the Enterprise crashed (Generations and Nemesis).

 

[Ghost Bones]

Ah yeah. Doesn't Worf have to deliver Molly in that one or some wacky unlikelihood? Do'h, talk about the worst person for the job! And never mind Picard with children!

 

[JustKate]

Would someone explain to me in some depth how this topic has been trolling on my part? I've not turn up and gone "DS9 SUX LOL!! ", I've explained that I am a DS9 fan to such a degree that it was once my favourite show, I've explained that I don't necessarily think my dislike or Kira equates to her being a bad character and that I also feel she developed into a more likeable character once she started seeing Odo, and I've also detailed how I think there was a writing issue in how she and other characters treated each other and want to see how others felt (perceiving niners, in general, to like her character unquestioningly).

But no, I've criticised the sainted Kira and supposedly think the Occupation was brilliant, I must just be trolling. I'm trying to discuss an aspect of a TV show for Jesus' sake. Isn't that the point of this place?

Speaking only for myself, Ghost Bones, what seems trollish is when you come out with extremely negative and unqualified statements - you know, basically "I hate Kira and by the way her hairdo is awful." Then, when a couple of posts later, you explain yourself, it (frankly) comes across as...well, not fake, exactly, but my own reaction is somewhere along the lines of "Why not say that in the first place? Why come out - repeatedly - with these extremely negative statements, and then backtrack, and then come out with a negative statement and backtrack?"

If you did it once, it might be one thing, but you've done it more than once in this very thread. It just doesn't seem as though you want to discuss it. It seems as though you are mostly interested in stirring the pot. If that's not your intention, my apologies. But that's how you're coming across.

I know for a fact that there are others who aren't all that fond of Kira, and in any case, I very much doubt that most consider her a saint. I certainly don't. If she were a saint, she'd be really boring. I like her because she's prickly and oversensitive and flawed.

 

[Destructor]

Kira was a right bitch. With a man's haircut. Right up there in the unlikeability stakes with The Shitsko himself. Anyone agree?

I do not agree. I love Kira, and her haircut.

 

[Ghost Bones]

Speaking only for myself, Ghost Bones, what seems trollish is when you come out with extremely negative and unqualified statements - you know, basically "I hate Kira and by the way her hairdo is awful." Then, when a couple of posts later, you explain yourself, it (frankly) comes across as...well, not fake, exactly, but my own reaction is somewhere along the lines of "Why not say that in the first place? Why come out - repeatedly - with these extremely negative statements, and then backtrack, and then come out with a negative statement and backtrack?"

So it's down to me not bunging my whole piece in the first post? Aiight then.

It just doesn't seem as though you want to discuss it. It seems as though you are mostly interested in causing trouble. If that's not your intention, my apologies. But that's how you're coming across.

I do want to discuss it, and as for wanting to cause trouble, what trouble is there to cause? I struggle to see what kind of trouble can be caused by posting an opinion then discussing it.

 

[JustKate]

So it's down to me not bunging my whole piece in the first post? Aiight then.

Your first post? Oh, for the love of God.

Here's post #1: "Kira was a right bitch. With a man's haircut. Right up there in the unlikeability stakes with The Shitsko himself. Anyone agree?"

And here's #2: "Jadzia wasn't particularly great, you're right. Always smugging it around and going on about how Curzon loved a shag. But she did have the quality of being completely gorgeous rather than being a butch lezza with stupid shoulderpads. Kira was always whinging about the occupation and generally being an arsehole. As well as slagging about with every Tom, Dick, and Vedek."

And of course #3: "She was being a right twat at the beginning of Defiant, which rather sexistly was only alleviated once Riker gave her a sound riking. And when Dukat declared the Cardies had joined the Dominion and she gave orders to fire (helpfully avoided by them being out of range). Apparently it escaped the nasty vindictive bitch's notice that despite this turn of events, they still weren't actually at war."

#4 and for a post or two after that, you finally elaborated a bit and there was some actual give-and-take, and then of course we come to this one: "Only if they're also a complete fucking bitch.”

You don’t see a possible problem here? A pattern? A theme? This fits your definition of "discussion"?

Yeesh.

 

[Sci]

Jadzia wasn't particularly great, you're right. Always smugging it around and going on about how Curzon loved a shag. But she did have the quality of being completely gorgeous rather than being a butch lezza with stupid shoulderpads.

Fascinating how you seem to be implying that lesbians and women who are not traditionally feminine are inferior to traditionally feminine heterosexual women.

 

[TenLubak]

Kira has a nice ass. Shes a bitch but shes hot. Plus all the stuff she went thru with the good old cardies raping her planet prolly would make someone a little bit angry, so i yeah I like Kira. I think the actress sorta sucks at times when she tries to be gentle and kind, like in STARSHIP DOWN when Siskos knocked out some of those lines a crige worthy. She wasnt so bad in the previous show or 2 back when Dukat was on a manhunt to kill his own daughter, plus she looked hot in that one too. I never understood how when she takes off her uniform jacket she has a undershirt on, i mean that things skin tite. Just like the vest sisko wears, then that mean they had 1 purple undershirt, 1 colored shirt, sometimes a vest, and then thier black uniform jacket. It must be cold on thier ships. But the kira uniform is as confusing as Ros take off her jacket (from the front) to reveal a red undershirt> what? how ok. its star trek. its pretend land. got it.

But bottom line Kiras a bitch, shes got legit reasons. Plus shes got a fine ass and she knows it so its not like anyones gonna give her any shit since most straight guys are trying to hit that. Like all those Bajoran preiests, and the Gul the bad guy Dukat. LOL laughing on line. Yeah, the women in trek have like PERFECT figures, so not socially accurate or forward thinking for womens lib. Why didnt we have a female version of Miles O Brien anywhere, or an overweight character, besides SCOTTY or any of the orignal cast. Well whatever its TV and the purpose of TV is to ,,,,make money. So Kira ass sells. Yes thats still on my mind..

 

[Ghost Bones]

Jadzia wasn't particularly great, you're right. Always smugging it around and going on about how Curzon loved a shag. But she did have the quality of being completely gorgeous rather than being a butch lezza with stupid shoulderpads.

Fascinating how you seem to be implying that lesbians and women who are not traditionally feminine are inferior to traditionally feminine heterosexual women.

I'm implying I find them less attractive. More specifically, that Jadzia being more physically attractive made her more tolerable in my eyes.

Regarding Kira's hair, I recall Visitor saying she had her hair cut butch (unlike how it was in the pilot) because she thought Kira was a no-nonsense sort of gal and wouldn't faff about maintaining long hair. Of course, every time we see her during the Occupation she has long hair, which sort of goes against the idea, considering being a freedom fighter is no doubt more intensive than the relatively cosy post-Occupation DS9.

 

[zar]

Jadzia wasn't particularly great, you're right. Always smugging it around and going on about how Curzon loved a shag. But she did have the quality of being completely gorgeous rather than being a butch lezza with stupid shoulderpads.

Fascinating how you seem to be implying that lesbians and women who are not traditionally feminine are inferior to traditionally feminine heterosexual women.

I'm implying I find them less attractive. More specifically, that Jadzia being more physically attractive made her more tolerable in my eyes.

Regarding Kira's hair, I recall Visitor saying she had her hair cut butch (unlike how it was in the pilot) because she thought Kira was a no-nonsense sort of gal and wouldn't faff about maintaining long hair. Of course, every time we see her during the Occupation she has long hair, which sort of goes against the idea, considering being a freedom fighter is no doubt more intensive than the relatively cosy post-Occupation DS9.

The scale of hair-faffing, from least to most faff, is as follows:

0 - letting hair grow long without grooming
1 - cutting hair short to minimize grooming necessity
2 - growing long hair and grooming it

Occupation-Kira was zero-faff. Post-Occupation Cozy-Kira did faff level one, the least amount of work required to appear presentable in polite society. I don't think she ever achieved level two, because she just didn't give a rat's faff.

 

[Ghost Bones]

Sort of accurate. It didn't look that bad in the Occupation scenes though (I suppose no one wants to make a manky-looking wig). 0 faff would also be achieved by having short hair in the Occupation; it's easily cut and also long hair gets in the way more. And having completely ungroomed long hair feels horrible.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Thank you, JustKate and Sci for pointing out some of the problems with GhostBones' posting style which lead to the 'friendly'. Although I suspect they knew this already.

GhostBones, the examples that JustKate posted below are exactly on target. Those early posts are, in fact, of the "Kira SUX" variety that you alluded to. And you also took a slam at Sisko that was completely undocumented as well.

You can't just come in and post those sorts of posts without support for your remarks. And no...circling back hours or days later does not count. When those posts go up in the forum, they elicit an immediate negative response from people...and it doesn't matter if you come back later to elaborate - the damage has already been done. What if the forum members, for example, had not been as circumspect and had flamed you right off the bat? I'd have had to warn them...and you circling back hours or days later to explain yourself does not undo that damage.

That's why what you did is called 'trolling'. Trolling for an immediate negative and hostile response was EXACTLY what you were doing when you posted the initial remarks. You KNOW it. I KNOW it. And the members of this forum KNOW it. So do yourself a favor and stop pretending otherwise. It's just wasting everyone's time and energy. And I really hate having my time and energy wasted.

You are welcome to dislike a character or whatever. But you must post arguable points IN YOUR POST. Not hours or days later.

Next time you don't, you'll have a warning for trolling. Frankly, you are damned lucky you don't have one already. So I wouldn't push it, if I was you.

So it's down to me not bunging my whole piece in the first post? Aiight then.

Your first post? Oh, for the love of God.

Here's post #1: "Kira was a right bitch. With a man's haircut. Right up there in the unlikeability stakes with The Shitsko himself. Anyone agree?"

And here's #2: "Jadzia wasn't particularly great, you're right. Always smugging it around and going on about how Curzon loved a shag. But she did have the quality of being completely gorgeous rather than being a butch lezza with stupid shoulderpads. Kira was always whinging about the occupation and generally being an arsehole. As well as slagging about with every Tom, Dick, and Vedek."

And of course #3: "She was being a right twat at the beginning of Defiant, which rather sexistly was only alleviated once Riker gave her a sound riking. And when Dukat declared the Cardies had joined the Dominion and she gave orders to fire (helpfully avoided by them being out of range). Apparently it escaped the nasty vindictive bitch's notice that despite this turn of events, they still weren't actually at war."

#4 and for a post or two after that, you finally elaborated a bit and there was some actual give-and-take, and then of course we come to this one: "Only if they're also a complete fucking bitch.”

You don’t see a possible problem here? A pattern? A theme? This fits your definition of "discussion"?

Yeesh.

This too (item below). Supported or not, cease and desist ALL of the lesbian stereotype remarks immediately or you will have another warning, in addition to the one for general trolling. That is totally unacceptable on this board.

Jadzia wasn't particularly great, you're right. Always smugging it around and going on about how Curzon loved a shag. But she did have the quality of being completely gorgeous rather than being a butch lezza with stupid shoulderpads.

Fascinating how you seem to be implying that lesbians and women who are not traditionally feminine are inferior to traditionally feminine heterosexual women.