Recently someone wrote, "Wesley was treated like he was twice his age and acted like he was half his age."
King or Queen of Mean
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Recently someone wrote, "Wesley was treated like he was twice his age and acted like he was half his age."
Odo may be gruff and reserved, yes. But he's not a jerk. He's not vindictive or petty. If he's mad, he has a reason to be.
And you gotta love anyone whose first words ever spoken to his own CO are "Who the hell are you?"
Exactly. The opposite of "warm and friendly" is not necessarily mean. Odo is the station's constable, trying to maintain law and order in a troubled political hot spot. And he's an alien blob of jelly. He's not supposed to be touchy-feelly and everyone's pal, just tough and fair and good at his job.
DS9 is not Mayberry. And Odo is not Sheriff Andy.
But that doesn't make him mean.
Once again, Greg Cox, you're spot-on.
Spock faces similar difficulties in TOS because of both his service rank and his learned reliance on logic at the expense of emotion. Both Spock and Odo are set apart because of their marked alien-ness from those around them, and being so extraordinarily different always exacts a price.
Yeah, they could have still had Wesley be a genius prodigy if they also gave him a believable teenage social life.
@Kilana2
While that was certainly a bad thing it wasn't exactly the most objectionable thing Seska did.
She was more evil than mean though. One can be mean without being evil, and evil without being mean.I don't think Odo's demeanor in performing his job made him mean, but he was certainly mean in some of his interactions. He made his professional grudge with Quark into something personal and intentionally put his quarters right above Quark's just because he knew his shapeshifting would bother him, and it took a big gesture from Quark before he was willing to do anything about the noise. He was often condescending, especially toward the beginning of the series.
Seska belongs on the list for sure. She was wicked.
I'm not sure we're all using the word "mean" the same way. Garak was impeccably polite and charming, just utterly ruthless and amoral when he had to be.
That qualifies as "villainous" to be sure. Also probably "sinister" and "unscrupulous" and definitely "treacherous." But I wouldn't describe him as "mean."
He might well stab you in the back, but I'm sure he'd be perfectly pleasant and cordial while doing so.
Let's also bear in mind that Garak pretty much won the war for the AQ.
And you can debate his 'Ends justify the means' morality all day, but he wasn't mean. He was friendly to those he had no intention of murdering.
And you can debate his 'Ends justify the means' morality all day, but he wasn't mean. He was friendly to those he had no intention of murdering.
I actually hated Q until his last couple of appearances on Voyager lol. I've only really warmed up to him after rewatches. I actually loved it in TNG when Guinan and him were squaring off a bit. I was like, "yes, you go Guinan!" I've yet to warm up to Pulaski though.
I don't see her as a character that is really mean, just as a person that has a lot of repressed anger and can lash out unexpectedly.
A regular character that was mean... I can think only of Pulaski, refusing to acknowledge Data as a person. (I don't remember though if she improved on that count later in season 2).
(And of course Seska and Winn and such characters are much meaner.... but those I don't count as 'regulars').
Why are all the people so protective of Data? He didn't take Pulaski's behavior towards him personal.
Pulaski is hardly the only person to treat Data like that. And she came to grudgingly accept him somehow in later episodes. Pulaski stands up to Picard and speaks her mind. If that's mean for you, I can live with it
Pulaski is hardly the only person to treat Data like that. And she came to grudgingly accept him somehow in later episodes. Pulaski stands up to Picard and speaks her mind. If that's mean for you, I can live with it
But that's only because he didn't know any better.
Data didn't know just how badly Pulaski was insulting him, and he didn't know how (or even THAT) he could fight back. He was an innocent victim.
Granted, Pulaski may have been rude to Data. But she wasn't mean in the sense of wishing someone evil, not even Data.
Speaking of evil Androids. Lore was mean. So now, Laser Beam, I'd like to see the person who prefers Lore over Pulaski or thinks Pulaski is meaner than Lore.
One might argue that Lore is the victim of Soong's flawed creation.
Pulaski had punch, unlike Beverly. I like them both and I like that they were different.
Because the audience cares about Data and has an emotional connection to him, even if Data has no emotions. So people get annoyed when they see their favorite character being picked on.
It's like shooting Old Yeller.
Because the audience cares about Data and has an emotional connection to him, even if Data has no emotions. So people get annoyed when they see their favorite character being picked on.
It's like shooting Old Yeller.
I'm also fond of Data and I'm currently enjoying David Mack's Cold Equations Trilogy. It's just that I can't see Pulaski as villain or mean or whatever. There are still Seska, Intendant Kira, Dukat, Winn and Lore.
Oh, I forgot someone evil: Crell Moset.
Problem is, he never acknowledged his wrongdoings against the Bajorans. (Granted, he was no regular, so he won't count).Same with Dukat: considered himself the benefactor for the Bajorans.
If this were for one shot or re appearing characters, the list would be huge.
For example, Sela, Tasha's daughter. She was just spiteful to everybody.
And that girl cadet first officer from Valiant. How can you forget that snobby sneer.
For example, Sela, Tasha's daughter. She was just spiteful to everybody.
And that girl cadet first officer from Valiant. How can you forget that snobby sneer.
People like Dukat, Seska, Crell Moset, etc. are evil, obviously. But evil does not necessarily mean, well, 'mean'.
One can act 'nice' in day-to-day life and still be an evil monster, like those people all were. And the reverse also applies: a person can be a good person at heart, doing good things, and still have a mean personality. Pulaski is an example of that. And yes, I still think Pulaski was mean, and I won't stop thinking that. She actively exploited Data's innocence, which she used to attack him. She knew he couldn't or wouldn't respond.
One can act 'nice' in day-to-day life and still be an evil monster, like those people all were. And the reverse also applies: a person can be a good person at heart, doing good things, and still have a mean personality. Pulaski is an example of that. And yes, I still think Pulaski was mean, and I won't stop thinking that. She actively exploited Data's innocence, which she used to attack him. She knew he couldn't or wouldn't respond.
She came to ``grudgingly accept him'' by the end of Elementary, Dear Data. That's like four episodes in. By mid-season she liked him. By the end of the season she was probably his biggest booster aboard ship.
The progression of her character doesn't draw much attention to itself --- obviously, or people wouldn't be consistently wrong about this --- but it's one of the most surprisingly natural character developments Next Generation ever did. Pulaski figured she would have nothing to like about this robot that thinks he's a man, until she actually, you know, interacts with him and discovers she likes this relentlessly likable fellow.
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