Kindle Trek Novels $2.99 and under

[Christopher]

Well, I really have no information on that question. Heck, I only have a limited understanding of this whole DRM business in the first place. I just write the things -- selling them is somebody else's department.

 

[Relayer1]

I have a hard time justifying paying for ebook copies of the old books I've bought. Do I own the license to read that work, or not? If I convert the .PDF to a .MOBI, I don't owe more. If the production costs are almost zero, why can't I get the ebook free if I've essentially already compensated Pocket for the writer/editor/typesetter, etc? If I paid that freight already...?

I have an extensive collection of pretty much mint condition Trek paperbacks. A lot of them have not yet been read.

I'd like to put them all on my Kindle for ease of access and to save the unread books from reading wear and tear (which despite care is often unavoidable).

I have already paid for these books -I shouldn't have to pay again for digital copies, after all, I can put my CD's on my Ipod to listen to them.

It is is not, however, easy to see how this could be done. With a new physical book a one use code could be included to obtain the download, but how do you prove you have an old paperback ? Have an auditor from the publisher come around to check out your bookshelves / attic ? You shouldn't be able to download the ebook for free if you don't own the hardcopy.

The only idea I've come up with with is a license for paperbacks over a certain age - say 5 years. For a one off fee (possibly $50) you get access to the entire Trek library up to a certain point. Yes, you are still having to pay again, but not much, and at least the publisher makes something from the dishonest readers who don't own the hardcopies.

 

[Stoek]

Well, I really have no information on that question. Heck, I only have a limited understanding of this whole DRM business in the first place. I just write the things -- selling them is somebody else's department.

Well that's why I asked if you knew. I didn't assume, but at the same time you strike me as being (much like myself) someone who likes knowing things. So I figured it was worth a shot.

I have a hard time justifying paying for ebook copies of the old books I've bought. Do I own the license to read that work, or not? If I convert the .PDF to a .MOBI, I don't owe more. If the production costs are almost zero, why can't I get the ebook free if I've essentially already compensated Pocket for the writer/editor/typesetter, etc? If I paid that freight already...?

I have an extensive collection of pretty much mint condition Trek paperbacks. A lot of them have not yet been read.

I'd like to put them all on my Kindle for ease of access and to save the unread books from reading wear and tear (which despite care is often unavoidable).

I have already paid for these books -I shouldn't have to pay again for digital copies, after all, I can put my CD's on my Ipod to listen to them.

It is is not, however, easy to see how this could be done. With a new physical book a one use code could be included to obtain the download, but how do you prove you have an old paperback ? Have an auditor from the publisher come around to check out your bookshelves / attic ? You shouldn't be able to download the ebook for free if you don't own the hardcopy.

The only idea I've come up with with is a license for paperbacks over a certain age - say 5 years. For a one off fee (possibly $50) you get access to the entire Trek library up to a certain point. Yes, you are still having to pay again, but not much, and at least the publisher makes something from the dishonest readers who don't own the hardcopies.

About the only way to accomplish what you are talking about would be to use a hand scanner, scan in the text and convert it to whatever e-book format you prefer. Honestly it's probably best to just bite the bullet and nickle and dime buying digital back-ups when you're able. The wear and tear saved on your book collection would be tremendous I would think.

Now as for new books going forward I wonder if people would be open to doing with books (and by people I'm talking on both sides of the issue) what has been done recently with comics. I can buy say the latest issue of Superman at my comic shop for 2.99 or I can spend a dollar more and get the physical copy as well as access to a digital version. Or I can spend 2.99 and just buy the digital version. So would people be willing to spend say 8.99 for the latest Trek MMP to have both the physical and digital copies, and spend just 7.99 for either one format or the other exclusively?

 

[ATimson]

So would people be willing to spend say 8.99 for the latest Trek MMP to have both the physical and digital copies, and spend just 7.99 for either one format or the other exclusively?

Yes, because Amazon will discount that $8.99 MMPB to $6.75 (when bought with 3 other MMPBs), while the ebook price will be stuck at $7.99.

 

[Stoek]

So would people be willing to spend say 8.99 for the latest Trek MMP to have both the physical and digital copies, and spend just 7.99 for either one format or the other exclusively?

Yes, because Amazon will discount that $8.99 MMPB to $6.75 (when bought with 3 other MMPBs), while the ebook price will be stuck at $7.99.

And if Digi-Packs were not eligible for such a discount?

 

[ATimson]

And if Digi-Packs were not eligible for such a discount?

Then I certainly wouldn't buy the ebook or the combo. I might buy the MMPB, but I'd have to think about it.

(It's not a coincidence that instead of buying every Trek book, since S&S went agency I've bought at best half of them, most of which were print versions. Charging more for an ebook instead of print is just stupid.)

 

[JD]

I have a hard time justifying paying for ebook copies of the old books I've bought. Do I own the license to read that work, or not? If I convert the .PDF to a .MOBI, I don't owe more. If the production costs are almost zero, why can't I get the ebook free if I've essentially already compensated Pocket for the writer/editor/typesetter, etc? If I paid that freight already...?

I have an extensive collection of pretty much mint condition Trek paperbacks. A lot of them have not yet been read.

I'd like to put them all on my Kindle for ease of access and to save the unread books from reading wear and tear (which despite care is often unavoidable).

I have already paid for these books -I shouldn't have to pay again for digital copies, after all, I can put my CD's on my Ipod to listen to them.

It is is not, however, easy to see how this could be done. With a new physical book a one use code could be included to obtain the download, but how do you prove you have an old paperback ? Have an auditor from the publisher come around to check out your bookshelves / attic ? You shouldn't be able to download the ebook for free if you don't own the hardcopy.

The only idea I've come up with with is a license for paperbacks over a certain age - say 5 years. For a one off fee (possibly $50) you get access to the entire Trek library up to a certain point. Yes, you are still having to pay again, but not much, and at least the publisher makes something from the dishonest readers who don't own the hardcopies.

What about doing what video games do for the pre-order Downloadable Conent, and having a code that prints out on the receipt when you pay?

 

[JWolf]

But back on the ebook bit, you said the VAST majority is writing, editing, typesetting, etc, and then the end cost of going to paperback or ebook is a small portion. There still HAS to be a cost, though, as one method involves materials, printing shops, transportation, shipping costs, etc. Maybe not very much, economy of scale and all, but there IS a cost. The book that goes down the ebook path instead has someone pushing the button that converts the file you were going to send to the printer to the various formats you want to support, and uploading to amazon/B&N/whatever. There's no scale, you make 1 copy. And essentially for free. Not small costs, pretty much NO costs.

Kinda like telling me that the cost to print a 300 page word document at home a thousand times is roughly the same as me hitting 'print to PDF' and emailing it to you. Maybe the price the publisher has negotiated IS embarrassingly low, but it doesn't 'feel' like they can be a wash...

Other part of the emotional argument against paying the same for MMPB or ebook is that at least with the MMPB, I'm receiving something. With digital products, it's tougher to rationalize, you don't get anything but an imaginary agreement about licensing.

If what I'm buying is the license to do it, I have a hard time justifying paying for ebook copies of the old books I've bought. Do I own the license to read that work, or not? If I convert the .PDF to a .MOBI, I don't owe more. If the production costs are almost zero, why can't I get the ebook free if I've essentially already compensated Pocket for the writer/editor/typesetter, etc? If I paid that freight already...?

Lets see, you have an LP, you paid again for the CD. You have a VHS tape, you paid again for the DVD and then the blu-ray. eBooks vs pBooks is the same difference. You don't get the eBook free. You have the pBook, you paid again for the eBook.

 

[JWolf]

Except that Tor is going DRM-free next month and it's expected that the rest of the industry will likely follow suit, so that may soon be a moot argument. If you buy Only Superhuman as an e-book, you will own it, just as you will if you buy it in hardcover. And pretty soon the same may be true for all other books.

Tor has already started going DRM free. Redshirts by John Scalzi was released DRM free. And if anyone reading this has not yet read it, go do so because it's really good.

I think Tor will be going fully DRM free once they open their eBook store. But I am hoping that new release will be DRM free from here on.

I'm curious if you know, will that mean that people will be able to re-sell digital copies?

I'm not sure if they would, or why they'd want to.

For some of the same reason one sells a pBook. Maybe you didn't like it and want to recoup some of the money. Maybe you think you'd never read it again and thus, getting some money for it would be good. But not being able to sell an eBook does lower the value.

 

[JD]

I don't see how. I doubt very much that the people behind paperbacks take being able to resell the books into account when they price or market them.
I really don't see why that kind of stuff is such a do or die issue for so many people. As long as words appear on a screen or on a page I'm happy.

 

[DAYoung]

It's pointless to "refute" something I never actually alleged. I never claimed the price had to be exactly the same. I was simply explaining that the prices wouldn't be hugely different. A lot of people falsely assume that most of the cost of a physical book is for the material and that an e-book "should" therefore cost mere pennies. All I'm doing is refuting their misconception.

And you're right to. More goes into books than ink and paper.

For interest's sake, it'd be interesting to compare printing and distributions costs for a MMPB with, for example, those of a major newspaper.

According to Business Insider:

"it costs the Times about twice as much money to print and deliver the newspaper over a year as it would cost to send each of its subscribers a brand new Amazon Kindle instead."

 

[Relayer1]

More goes into books than ink and paper.

"it costs the Times about twice as much money to print and deliver the newspaper over a year as it would cost to send each of its subscribers a brand new Amazon Kindle instead."

I agree that new novels should probably only be a little cheaper than paperbacks, reflecting raw materials, printing and transport savings, but older (possibly out of print) books are a different thing.

Whilst there would likely be insufficient demand to warrant reprinting them, putting them up as an ebook should cost very little. They should have already covered their costs regarding advances, editing, proof reading etc. - they only need to be formatted. The cost should therefore be much lower - between $2 to $4. This would still cover royalties, hosting costs and a profit for the publisher and retailer. I am basing this on the collections of Sherlock Holmes and H P Lovecraft I recently purchased as ebooks for about $1.50.

If the publisher sold the ebooks direct, eliminating the retailer, they could probably set the price nearer to the $2 mark while maintaining or even increasing their profit.

 

[DAYoung]

More goes into books than ink and paper.

"it costs the Times about twice as much money to print and deliver the newspaper over a year as it would cost to send each of its subscribers a brand new Amazon Kindle instead."

I agree that new novels should probably only be a little cheaper than paperbacks, reflecting raw materials, printing and transport savings, but older (possibly out of print) books are a different thing.

Whilst there would likely be insufficient demand to warrant reprinting them, putting them up as an ebook should cost very little. They should have already covered their costs regarding advances, editing, proof reading etc. - they only need to be formatted. The cost should therefore be much lower - between $2 to $4. This would still cover royalties, hosting costs and a profit for the publisher and retailer. I am basing this on the collections of Sherlock Holmes and H P Lovecraft I recently purchased as ebooks for about $1.50.

Possibly, yes.

Although even electronic editions of old books can cost extra money to publish. The publisher might still need to pay for conversion to new formats, error checking (i.e. checking formatting on e-readers), publicity, marketing, artworks/illustration, introductions/glossaries/indexes, and so on. And some of the books are still in copyright (as opposed to Conan Doyle and possible Lovecraft), so there are payments to authors/estates to consider.

 

[JD]

Some e-books, like the Wheel of Time books, even commission totally new artwork, so they'd have to pay for that.

 

[DAYoung]

Some e-books, like the Wheel of Time books, even commission totally new artwork, so they'd have to pay for that.

Yes, exactly - that's one of the costs I was talking about.

The general point is this: yes, e-books might cut printing and distribution costs in many cases. But there's much more to books than paper and ink.

 

[JWolf]

But for the eBooks that have bland generic artwork, then the price should be even lower as there's no paying the artist for the cover.

 

[FatherRob]

I have a pretty extensive collection of paperback Star Trek (and other!) books. If I could get a digital right to download them to my iPad or have them on a cloud directory for my access at any time, I would pay a dollar a book for the feature; perhaps even $1.50. Any more than that, and it means that the five minutes I will have to take tonight to pull out my under-bed storage with my paperbacks and pick some old novels for my vacation next week will be more financially viable to me than paying as if I had never bought the book before.

I understand the argument on the basis of formats (DVD to BluRay, for example), but I think it's an ongoing ripoff. I believe that if a new format of your favorite TV show is released, you should have the option of sending in your old DVD disk(s) and getting BluRay replacements at a reasonable exchange cost. For example, I will NOT pay the asking price for TOS or TNG in HD. I would be willing to pay $20.00 a season, perhaps... but not $80.00. I previously paid $69 or higher per season for TOS, TNG, and DS9... I am not paying top dollar again for something I already own and am perfectly pleased with.

Rob+

 

[Sho]

^ Considering the incredible amount of work involved in bringing TNG to HD I think $80 is a steal, personally ... not to mention that I'd really like for them to get filthy rich from doing it so they'll take on the even more technically challenging follow-up series as well.

 

[Relayer1]

I don't have a problem with paying again for an upgrade - I've multiple copies on multiple formats of the Alien and Star Wars series. It's a new version - fair enough...

Going from paperback to ebook is different. It's still the same book and is more analogous to putting a CD you own on to your Ipod. Same data, different carrier. In fact there is a small deterioration - MP3 isn't as good as WAV files, and ebooks are in monochrome.

If I own a paperback, I should be entitled to a digital copy. The logistical issues with this are pretty huge though, and I can't see how it could be done.

 

[bullethead]

Going from paperback to ebook is different. It's still the same book and is more analogous to putting a CD you own on to your Ipod. Same data, different carrier. In fact there is a small deterioration - MP3 isn't as good as WAV files, and ebooks are in monochrome.

Uh... you can put full color pictures in eBooks and have them display all those colors correctly if you have a mobile device with a e-reader app and a full color display.