News Killjoys and Ant-Man and the Wasp's Hannah John-Kamen to Play Red Sonja in New Movie

[UssGlenn]

I hardly think that's true. Using this list as a guide, and just limiting it to comics characters, we've got...

I've noticed this. It's become a "thing" so examples are just more memorable even if the math isn't there. Keep in mind, that if it wasn't of statistical significance, less than 5% of race swapped characters would be originally redheads (assuming the percentage of redheads in real life and fiction are roughly the same). This my quick and dirty with some googling list for live action adaptations, not limited solely to comics. I'd need to spend way more time to figure out if this actually is statistically significant.

Jimmy Olsen (never portrayed as redheaded in previous live action adaptations, just the comics/cartoons)
Iris West
Wally West
The Little Mermaid
Cyclone (Red Tornado’s Granddaughter, in the new Black Adam film)
Hawkgirl
Josie, from the Pussycats (Riverdale)
Commissioner Gordon (red hair when young)
Barbra Gordon (she’s Dominican, to be released this year)
Alicia Masters (Strawberry Blonde, The Thing’s Girlfriend)
Little Orphan Annie
Alice Monaghan (Hellboy)
Triss Merigold (Witcher)
Ravonna Renslayer (portrayed as both blonde and redhead in the comics)
Lana Lang

Sort of related, but not technically examples:

Starfire (alien)
Zendaya’s MJ (different character)


April O'Neil got swapped in the 2018 cartoon, apparently, but I was limiting this to live action.

 

[Christopher]

I've noticed this. It's become a "thing" so examples are just more memorable even if the math isn't there. Keep in mind, that if it wasn't of statistical significance, less than 5% of race swapped characters would be originally redheads (assuming the percentage of redheads in real life and fiction are roughly the same).

I think 5% is a bit high. It's about 1-2% of the world population, though since we're talking about race-swapped white characters specifically, I guess it would be higher.

This my quick and dirty with some googling list for live action adaptations, not limited solely to comics. I'd need to spend way more time to figure out if this actually is statistically significant.

Well, of course if you limit the list to redheads, that's going to make it look significant. Data needs to be considered in context, which is what I was doing with my list.

Plus, of course, the percentage of redheads in comics is far, far higher than in real life, because of the limitations of old-style comics coloring and because of aesthetic considerations. So yes, of course a lot of race-swapped comic-book characters will be redheads, but that doesn't mean the people casting them in movies are singling out redheads; it means the original comics creators emphasized redheads disproportionately.

April O'Neil got swapped in the 2018 cartoon, apparently, but I was limiting this to live action.

In fact, the original April O'Neil in the comics was brunette (and may even have been intended to be black, though probably not) and was made a redhead in the first TV cartoon.

 

[UssGlenn]

Correction: The original April O'Neil in the comics was brunette (and may even have been intended to be black, though probably not) and was made a redhead in the first TV cartoon.

I almost included that context, but left it out, since this was just an aside. But it goes along with the "seems like it" nature of this. If you ask a someone (who knows who she is) what color her hair is they will say Redhead.

 

[Christopher]

I almost included that context, but left it out, since this was just an aside. But it goes along with the "seems like it" nature of this. If you ask a someone (who knows who she is) what color her hair is they will say Redhead.

Which proves only that the general public is more familiar with screen adaptations of comics than the original comics. I daresay if you asked the average person what color Jimmy Olsen's hair is, they'd say brown, because most screen Jimmys have been brown-haired.

My point is that April is a counterexample to the premise that redheaded comics characters are somehow singled out for being changed in adaptations, because she's a character who was changed to redhead in the adaptation. Whether or not people know that is beside the point. Facts are not rewritten by people's ignorance of them.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[valkyrie013]

So.. In Usofa
Blacks 13.4%
Hispanics 18.4%
Asian 5.7%
Red heads 2%
So.. Minority.
Yes there .. Mostly.. White but there are other races with red hair even blacks if the Irish is strong enough.
But they are a persecuted minority, told they have no souls, picked on etc. And for me I have freinds and family that are redheads and know of there struggles.
So they are entitled to representation like any other minority.
How bad is it a kid reads a comic, watches a cartoon, then they see yay live action! And the character that represents them is diversified? What that makes them feel like ??

 

[ichab]

Not very familiar with the actress, but Bridgett Nielson couldn't act her way out a paper bag so almost anyone would be an improvement for that role.

 

[Christopher]

So they are entitled to representation like any other minority.
How bad is it a kid reads a comic, watches a cartoon, then they see yay live action! And the character that represents them is diversified? What that makes them feel like ??

Oh, come on. There are plenty of redheaded characters in superhero movies and TV -- Jean Grey, Mary Jane Watson (the Dunst version), Wanda Maximoff, Natasha Romanov (usually), Pepper Potts (if you count strawberry blond), Archie Andrews, Queen Mera (Aquaman), Medusa (Inhumans), Poison Ivy, etc. Not to mention the naturally redheaded actors who sometimes play non-redheaded characters, Amy Adams as Lois Lane (or Noel Neill before her), Toby Jones as Arnim Zola, and Tony Curran as Despero. Redheads are doing fine.

Not to mention that the media has always featured plenty of natural and dyed redheads over the decades, even when nonwhite faces were rare or absent. So it's the worst kind of racial-privilege hypocrisy to pretend any category of white people is being persecuted just because we don't get the hog the whole playground anymore.

 

[valkyrie013]

Oh, come on. There are plenty of redheaded characters in superhero movies and TV -- Jean Grey, Mary Jane Watson (the Dunst version), Wanda Maximoff, Natasha Romanov (usually), Pepper Potts (if you count strawberry blond), Archie Andrews, Queen Mera (Aquaman), Medusa (Inhumans), Poison Ivy, etc. Not to mention the naturally redheaded actors who sometimes play non-redheaded characters, Amy Adams as Lois Lane (or Noel Neill before her), Toby Jones as Arnim Zola, and Tony Curran as Despero. Redheads are doing fine.

Not to mention that the media has always featured plenty of natural and dyed redheads over the decades, even when nonwhite faces were rare or absent. So it's the worst kind of racial-privilege hypocrisy to pretend any category of white people is being persecuted just because we don't get the hog the whole playground anymore.

You evidently don't know any real redheads...
I've seen a cousin cry when she seen Ariel was going to played by a black actress. Asking why didn't they cast a red head like the cartoon. like her.. Wheres her representation? So yeah..
So I use my so called bs privilege is to call out bs diversity hires when it affects a minority of people that ARE affected by a race change.

 

[Christopher]

I've seen a cousin cry when she seen Ariel was going to played by a black actress. Asking why didn't they cast a red head like the cartoon. like her.. Wheres her representation? So yeah..

Boo-hoo. Now your cousin knows how people of color have felt for generations while white people have hogged all the roles. And why the hell are you singling out black people? What about all the brown-haired or blond white actors who've played redheads like Jimmy Olsen or Matt Murdock? Why don't you have a problem with them?

 

[Locutus of Bored]

You evidently don't know any real redheads...
I've seen a cousin cry when she seen Ariel was going to played by a black actress. Asking why didn't they cast a red head like the cartoon. like her.. Wheres her representation? So yeah..
So I use my so called bs privilege is to call out bs diversity hires when it affects a minority of people that ARE affected by a race change.

There are like eight thousand Weasleys alone, so how can red-haired people be underrepresented?

Seriously though, did you just try and compare red-haired people to black people as a minority group? I'm not saying you're a bigot, but your words are bigoted adjacent.

Shame you lacked the ability or inclination to talk to your young cousin and explain why there was nothing harmful to her or red-haired people or the character by having one black actor play the role out of countless white people. It could have been a nice teachable moment. Hopefully you didn't carry on the cycle of ignorance by telling her your questionable views like the ones posted above.

 

[ThankQ]

I hear some actors even lose or gain weight to play a part.

 

[valkyrie013]

Boo-hoo. Now your cousin knows how people of color have felt for generations while white people have hogged all the roles. And why the hell are you singling out black people? What about all the brown-haired or blond white actors who've played redheads like Jimmy Olsen or Matt Murdock? Why don't you have a problem with them?

Boohoo? Really? Everybody matters, and just saying boo hoo at a kid crying is sick.. Nobody should feel that way, EVER, just because she is white doesn't mean Jack crap. Its like your saying white people should be oppressed to make up for the oppressed is.. ugh.. pure crap.

Actually yes.. I do single out regular white people playing red heads.. but atleast they TRY in dyeing there hair red.

I don't care anymore.. we have had this arguement everytime I talk about this. So I'm just going to ignore you when I do.

 

[valkyrie013]

There are like eight thousand Weasleys alone, so how can red-haired people be underrepresented?

Seriously though, did you just try and compare red-haired people to black people as a minority group? I'm not saying you're a bigot, but your words are bigoted adjacent.

Shame you lacked the ability or inclination to talk to your young cousin and explain why there was nothing harmful to her or red-haired people or the character by having one black actor play the roll out of countless white people. It could have been a nice teachable moment. Hopefully you didn't carry on the cycle of ignorance by telling her your questionable views like the ones posted above.

Sorry for the double post, couldn't figure out how to add a quote to an already posted thing.
Seriously. I did. And as said, redhead are slandared, made fun of, and my already past posts on multipule threads said as well. Not Bigoted, AT ALL just speaking up for others. If you don't think Redheads are a minority, thats on you. I don't have to agree.

And not going to say a diversity hire is okay when its not. Just told her it will be okay, it'll still be a good movie, and that when they get to Brave, that there will be a redhead playing that.. I hope.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Boohoo? Really? Everybody matters, and just saying boo hoo at a kid crying is sick.. Nobody should feel that way, EVER, just because she is white doesn't mean Jack crap. Its like your saying white people should be oppressed to make up for the oppressed is.. ugh.. pure crap.

Actually yes.. I do single out regular white people playing red heads.. but atleast they TRY in dyeing there hair red.

I don't care anymore.. we have had this arguement everytime I talk about this. So I'm just going to ignore you when I do.

Holy shit, you actually went there with Red-Haired Lives Matter. I almost included that in my post as a joke, but you actually went there for real. Bravo man, really.

Yes, it's a given that all lives do matter, that's not in dispute. It's just that historically (and by that I mean through to the present day) black people's lives have been considered expendable in war, disposable in medicine (Tuskegee Experiments, etc.), second class in civil rights and voting rights and law and politics, targets to law enforcement, unfairly punished by courts and used as de facto slave labor in prison, and more. So it's especially important to focus more attention on redressing these systemic problems.

It's not that Black Lives Matter exclusively, it's just that unfortunately a lot of ignorant and bigoted people have to be reminded that Black Lives Matter at all.

If you think having one black person play Ariel or Red Sonja is equivalent to white people being "oppressed" then that is fucking delusional. Talking about the content of your post, not you personally. Did the character go away after this and can never be performed by a white actor again? Jesus. You don't know the first goddamn thing about real oppression.

 

[valkyrie013]

Holy shit, you actually went there with Red-Haired Lives Matter. I almost included that in my post as a joke, but you actually went there for real. Bravo man, really.

Yes, it's a given that all lives do matter, that's not in dispute. It's just that historically (and by that I mean through to the present day) black people's lives have been considered expendable in war, disposable in medicine (Tuskegee Experiments, etc.), second class in civil rights and voting rights and law and politics, targets to law enforcement, unfairly punished by courts and used as de facto slave labor in prison, and more. So it's especially important to focus more attention on redressing these systemic problems.

It's not that Black Lives Matter exclusively, it's just that unfortunately a lot of ignorant and bigoted people have to be reminded that Black Lives Matter at all.

If you think having one black person play Ariel or Red Sonja is equivalent to white people being "oppressed" then that is fucking delusional. Talking about the content of your post, not you personally. Did the character go away after this and can never be performed by a white actor again? Jesus. You don't know the first goddamn thing about real oppression.

I have read plenty of history. Thank you.
Not related, but did you know that Mormons had a Kill on Site law in Missouri for awhile? Many people have been oppressed in the past.
If you don't agree with me that red heads are a minority, fine. I do.
If you don't agree that redheads have been put down because of the color of there hair. Fine. I do.
Do I hate ALL recast because of race, height or any other attribute from comics/ cartoons to live action. Yes. I was PISSED that they did a cgi dwarf on a recent Marvel movie. Should have been a dwarf casting. I was pissed at Scarlett Johanson posing Motoko in ghost in the shell. Should have been asian preferably Japanese.
Do what Marvel occasionally does. If they want a diverse character, make a new one! Like what they dome with miles Morales being spider man.
So. In the end. My opinion. And a hill ill preach upon.
If you don't agree , that's on you and your perogative.whats the saying? I'll defend your right to free speech even if it isn't something I agree with.
Anyways.. Enjoy your night.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Can the ginger erasure argument go off to anywhere but here? The whole thing is code for white people, anyway. Where's the screams about ginger erasure with the like of ScarJo or Elizabeth Olsen because they sure aren't gingers. But the whole argument should really fuck off to 4chan or a corner table in a bar.

One good part of the news about the recent changes in the production is the new director, MJ Bassett, is a trans woman and has been pretty much widely hailed as a relief and positive change behind the scenes because she has written and directed a Robert E Howard character in Solomon Kane and she got the character down pretty well. Also, she is well versed in directing action films which Soloway had no experience with or career work which suggested they might.

Millennium is a dodgy outfit that makes cheap schlock action films. Red Sonja is like to be the same since the producers are what they are. However, with the new director and general acceptance for who she is and respect for her work and what that experience could bring to this movie is one positive note going forward.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Seriously. I did. And as said, redhead are slandared, made fun of, and my already past posts on multipule threads said as well. Not Bigoted, AT ALL just speaking up for others. If you don't think Redheads are a minority, thats on you. I don't have to agree.

They are certainly a minority in the technical sense of being numerically fewer than black and brown haired people (about 2% of the world population are natural red heads, and 3% are natural blonds). But a minority in terms of legal status like they're a protected class? No. A minority in social status like red-haired people face widespread discrimination in present day hiring, voting, sentencing, treatment by police, representation in government, etc? No. Some isolated incidents, sure.

Were red-haired people forced to sit at the back of public buses, lynched, had separate water fountains and bathrooms, taught in separate schools, experimented on, fought in segregated military units, etc.? No.

I mean, if we went back to the Spanish Inquisition where red haired people were legitimately persecuted by the Church and state who associated red hair with Jews, sure, your point might not sound really really dumb. But you're talking about now. And I'm sorry, but kids being mean on the playground and isolated incidents of violence, while it sucks and I'm sorry for anyone who went through it, is not the same as systemic discrimination and oppression.

And not going to say a diversity hire is okay when its not. Just told her it will be okay, it'll still be a good movie, and that when they get to Brave, that there will be a redhead playing that.. I hope.

Yeah, you wouldn't want your young cousin to learn that hatefulness based on skin color was wrong. That's a terrible lesson. Bang up job, Ace.

 

[valkyrie013]

They are certainly a minority in the technical sense of being numerically fewer than black and brown haired people (about 2% of the world population are natural red heads, and 3% are natural blonds). But a minority in terms of legal status like they're a protected class? No. A minority in social status like red-haired people face widespread discrimination in present day hiring, voting, sentencing, treatment by police, representation in government, etc? No. Some isolated incidents, sure.

Were red-haired people forced to sit at the back of public buses, lynched, had separate water fountains and bathrooms, taught in separate schools, experimented on, fought in segregated military units, etc.? No.

I mean, if we went back to the Spanish Inquisition where red haired people were legitimately persecuted by the Church and state who associated red hair with Jews, sure, your point might not sound really really dumb. But you're talking about now. And I'm sorry, but kids being mean on the playground and isolated incidents of violence, while it sucks and I'm sorry for anyone who went through it, is not the same as systemic discrimination and oppression.

Yeah, you wouldn't want your young cousin to learn that hatefulness based on skin color was wrong. That's a terrible lesson. Bang up job, Ace.

Leave this here.. Good read to inform you of thousands of years if discrimination.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_against_people_with_red_hair
Huh.. Malcolm X was a red head.. Interesting.
Erin Kellyman would be a goid choice if you need diversity.. Half black half Irish with real red hair. You've seen her in solo and falcon series. Curly red hair.
Your opinion, moving on.
Sorry everybody for fuming. With my extended family being a good portion redheads this subject irks me.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Anyhoo, Hannah John-Kamen kicked ass on Killjoys and was great in Ant Man, Force Awakens, Game of Thrones, Black Mirror, and Brave New World, so I look forward to seeing what she can bring to the role.