Khan's child

[Therin of Andor]

Sounds like a different publication - mine was blue, and had B&W predominantly, but with some colour shots towards the centre.

AFAIK, the Photonovel for ST II was only ever in b/w. I own the US edition - but the UK edition was also available in Australia, and it was also b/w. Why would they interrupt the flow of a b/w story to add random colour pics in the middle?

The TMP Photonovel, also by Richard Anobile, was in full colour - similar deep blue cover to ST II. There was also UK and Australian editions of the Roddenberry novelization and those had a section of captioned colour plates in the middle, unlike the US edition.

Knowledge to you maybe... I wouldn't call it common though.

Any fan worth their salt follow "Starlog" magazine in those days and the scripted face-in-the-porthole scene was a commonly known-about cut scene. Ditto the Marla-painted family portrait that went unused. What didn't get a lot of publicity at the time were the pics of the toddler-in-rags crawling around the Genesis Device in the transporter room.

 

[Harvey]

UCLA has a copy of an abbreviated* Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan workprint publicly available through their archive research and study center. It includes Chekov screaming at the baby in the window, and the scene where Chekov and Terrell, but does not include the infamous blackface stunt performer making a fall.

I ended up indicating most of the notable differences I observed in this thread.

*It seems that it was made for the purposes of an outside vendor to cut trailers and TV spots for the film. Probably for that reason, it's missing the final 1-2 reels which contain Spock's death.

 

[los2188]

UCLA has a copy of an abbreviated* Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan workprint publicly available through their archive research and study center. It includes Chekov screaming at the baby in the window, and the scene where Chekov and Terrell, but does not include the infamous blackface stunt performer making a fall.

Are we able to view it online or do we have to go there?

 

[Harvey]

You have to go there, I'm afraid.

 

[Blip]

AFAIK, the Photonovel for ST II was only ever in b/w. I own the US edition - but the UK edition was also available in Australia, and it was also b/w. Why would they interrupt the flow of a b/w story to add random colour pics in the middle?

The TMP Photonovel, also by Richard Anobile, was in full colour - similar deep blue cover to ST II. There was also UK and Australian editions of the Roddenberry novelization and those had a section of captioned colour plates in the middle, unlike the US edition.

Yet that's definitely what I had; B&W shots but with a colour segment. I may not have it to hand, but my own memory is not quite as shot as that of some people in here...

Any fan worth their salt follow "Starlog" magazine in those days and the scripted face-in-the-porthole scene was a commonly known-about cut scene. Ditto the Marla-painted family portrait that went unused. What didn't get a lot of publicity at the time were the pics of the toddler-in-rags crawling around the Genesis Device in the transporter room.

I'm not referring to the porthole scene, nor the family portrait, and I never did. I'm referring precisely to the toddler-with-genesis pics, which as you say experienced much less publicity.

Secondly, having been born in 1981, and therefore not in a position to read said magazine edition, that makes me not worth my salt??

 

[Therin of Andor]

Yet that's definitely what I had; B&W shots but with a colour segment. I may not have it to hand, but my own memory is not quite as shot as that of some people in here...

Well, I'm afraid we shall remain skeptical until you can show us what you have and, as you say, you'd have to "drive halfway up the country and pull out that novel from storage".

Perhaps try looking at Steve Roby's site:
http://www.well.com/~sjroby/lcars/1982.html#wkps
- one of the most complete listing of ST books. The photonovel published for ST II was b/w throughout.

I'm not referring to the porthole scene, nor the family portrait, and I never did. I'm referring precisely to the toddler-with-genesis pics, which as you say experienced much less publicity.

Yes, but we still haven't determined which scene los2188 claims to have witnessed. I asked him to clarify whether he "saw" the face at the porthole or the baby crawling in Reliant's transporter, and I don't think we got an answer.

Secondly, having been born in 1981, and therefore not in a position to read said magazine edition, that makes me not worth my salt??

No, I was talking about fans of the day and clearly you were a toddler. That there was a baby scene that was cut was common knowledge. Not our fault that you missed some staff meetings.

 

[los2188]

I'm not referring to the porthole scene, nor the family portrait, and I never did. I'm referring precisely to the toddler-with-genesis pics, which as you say experienced much less publicity.

Yes, but we still haven't determined which scene los2188 claims to have witnessed. I asked him to clarify whether he "saw" the face at the porthole or the baby crawling in Reliant's transporter, and I don't think we got an answer.

What I remember seeing is the child in the window. I don't remember the interaction between the child and Terrell and I remember seeing a child briefly just before the Reliant exploded. I remember the blonde hair (duh, what other colour hair would a kid in a movie have). I may be wrong and I may be trying to remember something that wasn't there, and I'm okay with that, but there simply is some sort of memory there and I stand by it. Also my buddy remembers it as well and I stand by that too, but I am willing to admit that I could be wrong. It's just a movie and not life or death.

 

[ChristopherPike]

There was an unusual photo I saw once among other scenes that definitely were in the movie. It was on a laserdisc cover (or was it a poster), showing Kirk and Spock behind bars. Something that never actually happens in The Wrath of Khan.

Probably figured in somebody's slash fiction though... LOL!

 

[Therin of Andor]

I may be wrong and I may be trying to remember something that wasn't there, and I'm okay with that, but there simply is some sort of memory there and I stand by it. Also my buddy remembers it as well and I stand by that too, but I am willing to admit that I could be wrong. It's just a movie and not life or death.

Okay, so it's also possible someone showed you stills of both scenes and you then had a dream where you inserted those scenes yourself - in your mind. I've certainly dreamed alternative takes of movies before. Also did that with "The Devil in the Dark" episode of TOS. It was a shock to finally see the ep. again and realize I'd remembered it quite differently.

 

[los2188]

I may be wrong and I may be trying to remember something that wasn't there, and I'm okay with that, but there simply is some sort of memory there and I stand by it. Also my buddy remembers it as well and I stand by that too, but I am willing to admit that I could be wrong. It's just a movie and not life or death.

Okay, so it's also possible someone showed you stills of both scenes and you then had a dream where you inserted those scenes yourself - in your mind. I've certainly dreamed alternative takes of movies before. Also did that with "The Devil in the Dark" episode of TOS. It was a shock to finally see the ep. again and realize I'd remembered it quite differently.

No. The stills, no. The first time I saw the stills was when I joined this site, but I am totally willing to acknowledge that I could be wrong or that I'm wanting to think I saw it when I didn't, but I still know that I did, but again, I could be wrong. I will say that I think having those scenes in the movie for me adds a little something more to the movie. Actually more to the character of Khan and the depths he will go to exact revenge on Kirk and his crew.

 

[Blip]

Well, I'm afraid we shall remain skeptical until you can show us what you have and, as you say, you'd have to "drive halfway up the country and pull out that novel from storage".

Thought you might say that - I'm fairly sure you'll understand when I say that I'm not going to make that a priority just to defeat a bunch nerdy arguments!!

Perhaps try looking at Steve Roby's site:
http://www.well.com/~sjroby/lcars/1982.html#wkps
- one of the most complete listing of ST books. The photonovel published for ST II was b/w throughout.

I know well enough what I have in my collection, and looking at a (not necessarily complete) source isn't going to magically persuade me otherwise... thanks for trying though.

Yes, but we still haven't determined which scene los2188 claims to have witnessed. I asked him to clarify whether he "saw" the face at the porthole or the baby crawling in Reliant's transporter, and I don't think we got an answer.

I can only refer to the appearance of said kiddy in the transporter room - I've not made any input on the other bits. Hence my confusion at your comment...

No, I was talking about fans of the day and clearly you were a toddler. That there was a baby scene that was cut was common knowledge. Not our fault that you missed some staff meetings.

I want to chastise you for paraphrasing a TSFS quote, but I just can't bring myself to do it...

 

[Therin of Andor]

Thought you might say that - I'm fairly sure you'll understand when I say that I'm not going to make that a priority just to defeat a bunch nerdy arguments!!

Steve Roby's list is as complete as you'll get. Maybe it's only missing one title. Yours?

Pocket Books was the only licensee at the time, and many of us have collected every ST Pocket Book to come down the pike since "Six Science Fiction Plays". If you have a ST II Photonovel with colour pages in it, that is not from Pocket US, Pocket Canada and whoever did the UK version (which I've also viewed), you do indeed have a rarity.

 

[los2188]

Yes, but we still haven't determined which scene los2188 claims to have witnessed. I asked him to clarify whether he "saw" the face at the porthole or the baby crawling in Reliant's transporter, and I don't think we got an answer.

From what I remember, I saw the child in the window, and on the transporter just before the ship exploded. That's all. Alright that's it. Just to prove I saw it, I'm going to create a temporal vortex and go back to 1982 and watch it at the theater!! While I'm there I'm going to tell execs at Paramount to not use anything called a Nexus in future movies, do not use the idea of finding God in any movies, no fountain of youth movies, and pay close attention to detail on any movie that may have a tagline of A Generation's Final Journey...if anyone else has suggestions for me to tell them when I go back to 1982, please feel free to let me know. Assimilate that!!

 

[Doug Otte]

Yes, but we still haven't determined which scene los2188 claims to have witnessed. I asked him to clarify whether he "saw" the face at the porthole or the baby crawling in Reliant's transporter, and I don't think we got an answer.

From what I remember, I saw the child in the window, and on the transporter just before the ship exploded. That's all. Alright that's it. Just to prove I saw it, I'm going to create a temporal vortex and go back to 1982 and watch it at the theater!! While I'm there I'm going to tell execs at Paramount to not use anything called a Nexus in future movies, do not use the idea of finding God in any movies, no fountain of youth movies, and pay close attention to detail on any movie that may have a tagline of A Generation's Final Journey...if anyone else has suggestions for me to tell them when I go back to 1982, please feel free to let me know. Assimilate that!!

Can you please call me (let's see...where was I living then...well, look me up either in Maryland or Washington DC) and tell me not to be so lazy, and make something constructive out of my life.

Thanks,
Doug