Khan and the Eugenics War

[Dar70]

You're not going to find the Star Trek series on the Disney+ app . . . because they're on the Paramount+ app.

Ha. Yeah I realized my typo. Actually Disney works great. Paramount not so much.

 

[Campe]

The P+ app could be better, sure.

 

[NCC-73515]

Could be that after he left in 1996, a follow-up project was named after him, since he was the 'friendliest' of the augments

 

[Mudd]

Could be that after he left in 1996, a follow-up project was named after him, since he was the 'friendliest' of the augments

Nah. World War III didn't happen in the 90s.

 

[NCC-73515]

Nah. World War III didn't happen in the 90s.

what a well-connected response that has everything to do with the cited post

 

[Ketrick]

Unless and until SNW or a proposed Khan series explains further and explicitly, officially, unequivocally moves the timeline, my interpretation will be:

Khan comes to power in 1992 and is overthrown in 1996. (The first phase of what will become known as the Eugenics Wars.
Contingency plans are drawn up during that period for "our" side to develop its own genetic supermen, producing a funding document (dated June 7, 1996) for Project Khan, to create our own equivalents of Khan Singh.
The Shenzhen Convention outlaws such genetic research. Adam Soong files the report away.
2024 - Picard Season 2. Soong pulls out the document as part of his next plan.
2020's-50's: Second American Civil War blurs into the second phase of the Eugenics Wars and Colonel Green's early 21st century genocidal war culminating in World War III.
2063: FIRST CONTACT
2079: The Post-Atomic Horror (probably extends back in time to the immediate aftermath of WW III.

STAR TREK history then continues as chronicled until retconned further by future production.

Authorial and producers' intentions and statements made in interviews can inform commentary and speculation, but are hypothetical until they are properly realized onscreen. All preliminary concepts are provisional until they are executed.

Your mileage, of course, can and will vary.

This is more or less my take on things too. The Khan Project folder and Pike's comments can both be interpreted in multiple ways, ways that don't contradict past continuity but rather expand upon and help explain seeming contradictions. In fact this interpretation helps explain Spock's comment about the mid-1990's and the last world war.

 

[Mudd]

Yeah, it's just not supported by what they're showing and saying, and the new timeline is. Occam's Razor.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Yeah, it's just not supported by what they're showing and saying, and the new timeline is. Occam's Razor.

Whenever you see something not fitting canon, just blame Q.

I used to blame the Temporal Cold War.

 

[Mudd]

I just accept that the writers changed things.

 

[Campe]

Exactly. We can’t base our future off of 1966 forever if we want Trek to even try to be relevant.

 

[Mudd]

Or just not entirely silly.

 

[Dar70]

This is more or less my take on things too. The Khan Project folder and Pike's comments can both be interpreted in multiple ways, ways that don't contradict past continuity but rather expand upon and help explain seeming contradictions. In fact this interpretation helps explain Spock's comment about the mid-1990's and the last world war.

Someone who gets it
Well said...

 

[fireproof78]

Could be that after he left in 1996, a follow-up project was named after him, since he was the 'friendliest' of the augments

Indeed.

 

[Tuskin38]

Nah. World War III didn't happen in the 90s.

Almost everything after TOS has WW3 in the 21st Century and the Eugenics Wars in the 90s.

I'm not sure what your point is.

 

[Mudd]

Almost everything after TOS has WW3 in the 21st Century and the Eugenics Wars in the 90s.

The point is that if one insists on reading what was said in TOS about Khan literally and as the last word, at the very first discussion of Khan's history Spock and McCoy identify the Eugenics War as being the same as our "last World War:"

SPOCK: No such vessel listed. Records of that period are fragmentary, however. The mid-1990s was the era of your last so-called World War.

MCCOY: The Eugenics Wars.

That would allow for the Eugenics War to happen after WW III - if we assume a WW IV - but since nothing like that ever comes up in Trek I think we can assume that WW III = last world war.

What, someone wants to split hairs over a phrase like "the era of" or the pluralization of "Eugenics War(s)?" They can do that, but it would introduce a whole new level of mealy-mouthed bullshit into the attempt to hold SNW and Picard to the letter of oldTrek continuity.

And if you're not going to use TOS as the touchstone for the dates and definitions of "Eugenics War" and "World War III..." well then, hell, we're in a continuity free-for-all and any idea of holding SNW to any previous canon is moot because it already changes whenever the writers want it to.

 

[Tuskin38]

And if you're not going to use TOS as the touchstone for the dates and definitions of "Eugenics War" and "World War III..."

TNG+ certianlly didn't for a lot of things.

 

[Yistaan]

There may be a way to reconcile. Spock calls the 1990s the era of the last of your so called World War. McCoy says Eugenics Wars (wars as in plural)

The 1990s war was the first eugenics war and the 2053 war was the 2nd eugenics war that's called World War 3. Spock decided to lump them together, but strictly speaking they are different wars (thus the terminology of Eugenics Wars plural)

 

[Mudd]

TNG+ certianlly didn't for a lot of things.

No, which is the get-out-of-jail for SNW and Picard fixing the Khan problem.

 

[Mudd]

McCoy says Eugenics Wars (wars as in plural)

No.

Pike says "The Eugenics War." We never speak of The World War," because there have been two.

They're not reconciling this. They're changing it.

 

[DEWLine]

Ugh...but we don't need to change it.