I'd rather have good than interesting.
And, no, those are not the only choices, and rarely is art so categorical.
Kelvin Timeline all but confirmed
- Thread starter captainkirk
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And, no, those are not the only choices, and rarely is art so categorical.
"The enemy of art is the absence of limitations." --- attributed to Orson Welles
http://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/05/24/art-limit/
But he's not being described there by Henry Jaglom as talking per se about rules of style, format, or conformity.
http://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/05/24/art-limit/
Orson Welles once said to me at lunch, “The enemy of art is the absence of limitations.” Economically and creatively that’s the most important advice you can be given. You have limitations; you don’t have $1-million to blow up that bridge, so you have to create something else on film to produce the same effect. Instead of having money to hire hundreds of extras, you have to sneak a cameraman in a wheelchair through the streets of New York City and steal the shot, which gives you a look of much greater reality.
But he's not being described there by Henry Jaglom as talking per se about rules of style, format, or conformity.
And yet, it's always better than "dull."
Financial limitations can lead to great things. I doubt the monster in Forbidden Planet would have been as frightening if they'd had the money to do some kind of suit or stop-motion.
We do see the monster in Forbidden Planet. And I don't imagine the effect was cheap.
It's not like that movie was restrained (for the time) in its use suits and SFX. I might be misremembering, but I believe Robbie alone cost a fortune.
Of course, there's a huge difference between technical/budget restraints and 'canon.'
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With all due credit to you
Lol am not after credit. Just chipping in.
We do see it, but IIRC they came up with the idea of it being invisible and only being seen with the glow of the lasers because they couldn't afford to build a practical one. To me it was much more effective and memorable that way than if it was a hokey looking suit.
If the very first episode of Discovery was worthy of the silver screen, but included an event in which the Romulans went extinct and it was made very clear that Captain Kirk wasn't even born yet, would you keep watching the show or is its conformity with TOS that important to you? Would you prefer something of random quality that isn't incongruent with TOS?
You really couldn't just assume that logically somehow the Romulans were later resurrected or perhaps 2 different species simply, coincidentally go by the same name? And that they must be referring to a different Kirk or that somehow their year 2250 and Kirk's year 2250 were different for some reason? How many times did the Enterprise of TOS get themselves separated from their own timeline as a plot point? Given how the events of TOS seem to imply that absolutely anything is possible, it's hard to believe that a fan can't suspend his disbelief for something as small as the aesthetics of a Klingon. A lot of you are being ridiculous and need to admit it to yourselves.
You really couldn't just assume that logically somehow the Romulans were later resurrected or perhaps 2 different species simply, coincidentally go by the same name? And that they must be referring to a different Kirk or that somehow their year 2250 and Kirk's year 2250 were different for some reason? How many times did the Enterprise of TOS get themselves separated from their own timeline as a plot point? Given how the events of TOS seem to imply that absolutely anything is possible, it's hard to believe that a fan can't suspend his disbelief for something as small as the aesthetics of a Klingon. A lot of you are being ridiculous and need to admit it to yourselves.
I'm looking at Matt Winston in a rerun of 6 Feet Under.
Just have him do a cameo every now and then, no lines, in bad disguises playing different characters who any one who is paying attention should know are all the same guy.
Just have him do a cameo every now and then, no lines, in bad disguises playing different characters who any one who is paying attention should know are all the same guy.
It was a conscious decision and not a budget one. They used the best animators Disney had at the time to created the Blaster and Monster effects, and it didn't come cheap.
That's more or less what Roddenberry said about the differences between TOS and TMP. TOS was just an "interpretation" of what happened.It's been confirmed its the Prime Timeline, but amusing myself thinking perhaps the Discovery is from the far future and there historians in the future didn't do a good job getting the aesthetics right for the 23rd century.
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Or more to the point:
Had someone from Paramount come to Wise/Bennett and told them they couldn't change the look o the Klingons because the cost of the application would have been too much, so they'd have to instead find a way to update the look to be more cinematically interesting without breaking the bank is a lot different than that same person from Paramount saying "No you can't do that. That's not how they looked on the show."
When it comes to changes isn't it any many cases less about a change as it is about what is changed and also how much is still the same?
I think the big issue with "Discovery" has been less about changes as it is that their seem to be little that is familiar to the "TOS" timeframe in that teaser. I mentioned this before but I still think ever change they did would have been accepted if they were simply wearing TOS style uniforms. I actually think the uniforms are going to be a bigger issue than the sets not looking like they belong in that time period.
What is interesting is that they shouldn't be wearing TOS outfits but outifts that look inspired from "The Cage." Only take a cue from the Kelvin Universe by giving them other options as well for away missions and whatnot which is something I think they did if you go by that transporter room photo.
It seems to me you got to give classic fans something if you want them to think it's all in the prime universe. Some in-universe reasons or old school tech mixed in with the new tech. For all we know they have done this but it's hard to tell just from a 2 minute teaser. On the surface the teaser says "Kelvin Universe" so it makes sense people are not just going to accept the words of the creators until they see the final product.
Jason
I think the big issue with "Discovery" has been less about changes as it is that their seem to be little that is familiar to the "TOS" timeframe in that teaser. I mentioned this before but I still think ever change they did would have been accepted if they were simply wearing TOS style uniforms. I actually think the uniforms are going to be a bigger issue than the sets not looking like they belong in that time period.
What is interesting is that they shouldn't be wearing TOS outfits but outifts that look inspired from "The Cage." Only take a cue from the Kelvin Universe by giving them other options as well for away missions and whatnot which is something I think they did if you go by that transporter room photo.
It seems to me you got to give classic fans something if you want them to think it's all in the prime universe. Some in-universe reasons or old school tech mixed in with the new tech. For all we know they have done this but it's hard to tell just from a 2 minute teaser. On the surface the teaser says "Kelvin Universe" so it makes sense people are not just going to accept the words of the creators until they see the final product.
Jason
Bingo.
Why would CBS want to do that though? They make a ton of money from the Prime timeline.
I agree, but I think that from the creators' perspective (and that of many other people), they've already put plenty of old Trek in with the new, such as the communicators, phasers, and general layouts and concepts (round bridge, saucers and nacelles etc). I almost feel like I'm being too demanding or even greedy for not being completely satisfied with it, particularly since I feel like I'm in the minority.
Anyway, If token communicators and phasers aren't enough, how can we even know that we'd find it more acceptable with token TOS-like (or, better yet, TOS pilot-like) uniforms? Especially since we wouldn't have ever seen the ones they've actually ended up with. It would be better, but there would always be some other nit to pick.
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