Kelvin Timeline all but confirmed
- Thread starter captainkirk
- Start date
I don't care that they changed the uniforms, but why did they have to change them to something so fucking ugly?
*It's not even that they're all blue and gold. It's that they are ugly shades of blue and gold. The only way they could have been worse is if they'd gone with the LA Rams blue and gold. (Sorry Digits.) And at least the Rams had the sense to change them.
I was never a big fan of the maroons either, but at least they had some weight to them (bot literal and figurative). Aside from being an ugly, these just feel cheap and of poor quality fabric, which is unfortunate given the show's apparent budget. I mean, they look like something you'd wear to bed, not out in public. And they lack that quaint, simplistic charm of the TMP or TNG-era "pajamas."
It's too bad because I like the other changes. I think the new Klingons look fantastic, and the transporters good be promising--though it's impossible to say without seeing the animations in action.
*It's not even that they're all blue and gold. It's that they are ugly shades of blue and gold. The only way they could have been worse is if they'd gone with the LA Rams blue and gold. (Sorry Digits.) And at least the Rams had the sense to change them.
I was never a big fan of the maroons either, but at least they had some weight to them (bot literal and figurative). Aside from being an ugly, these just feel cheap and of poor quality fabric, which is unfortunate given the show's apparent budget. I mean, they look like something you'd wear to bed, not out in public. And they lack that quaint, simplistic charm of the TMP or TNG-era "pajamas."
It's too bad because I like the other changes. I think the new Klingons look fantastic, and the transporters good be promising--though it's impossible to say without seeing the animations in action.
I think they can make us much money off of any Trek no matter what universe it is set in right now. I think having a prime universe was more important for the TNG spin-offs back in the day since the studio would like to sell them as being connected to TNG.
At this point I think the issue is something only we fans care about and in fact might even be a turn off for people who got tired of Berman era Trek. Maybe TOS still has some value but it seems to me that if you do a show that looks nothing like it, has none of the big 3 in KIrk,Spock, and McCoy then your not really going to get people interested in the show just because it's near that time period. Because "Discovery" looks like it does I don't think they are going to get people to watch because of nostigia. It will have to earn support simply on it's own creative merits and maybe some love from people who enjoyed the Kelvin Universe movies.
Jason
As long as they get the big-picture stuff right and it feels like STAR TREK, I'm not going to sweat the small stuff. There are communicators and transporter beams and Starfleet and the Federation and Vulcans and Klingons? Sounds like STAR TREK to me.
The costumes and sets are just window dressing.
The costumes and sets are just window dressing.
With uniforms I was thinking about how they were used in the Kelvin Universe movies. I think the old school uniforms were used just enough to help sell that setting as being in TOS time. They also had more modern uniforms which were also used to help make the old uniforms in their from looking to hokey and dated.
I was also thinking about the Enterprise E compared to the Enterprise D. The E had more modern looking sets as well and used modern graphics at that time. Still the computer consoles still used the same color scheme's and the starfleet uniforms looked like the DS9 uniforms only switiching the colors from the shoulder patched area to the turtleneck tunic around the neck. Phasers were all updated but still looking similiar enough to what used to be used.
What I don't understand is that "Discovery" seems to still be using the same bridge concept that has been used since the 60's. A captains chair,viewscreen, computer consoles and stations. It's like that type of set is timeless so you can make it look old school yet also modern in the same way modern baseball stadiums have been made to capture some of the feel of older day stadiums but also have modern things added.
To me it's the other sets were you can have more freedom. I don't think anyone would care if the engineering room looked different or the hallways or crew quarters looked different. PLus I like the idea of them using sets we have never seen that much such as a gym or a more advanced science lab. We have seen science labs before but they were pretty shotty and were never a standing set. How about a PX were people go to shop?
Jason
I think they have done that if the teaser is to be believed. Right now, at least for me, it's basically figuring out where it will fit in my head canon. It's kind of fun to be honest. I'm hoping for 3rd universe because that seems more plausible with the new look but also trying to reticon some of this stuff also can be fun.
Jason
I thought he sounded more like Rod Stewart...
It's not canon unless we get a bowling alley.
A bowling alley would be neat. Also one of those pre- holodeck, holodecks that I understand was on the cartoon. Haven't seen the cartoons as of yet so i'm not sure what abilities they have.
Jason
I felt the Enterprise theme was more Bryan Adams-esque (or more specifically, I said it was "almost, but not quite entirely, unlike Bryan Adams", to paraphrase Douglas Adams [no relation to Bryan]
) -- and my reasons were not only because of the sound of Russel Watson's voice, but because the arrangement of the song was more like the arrangement of a Bryan Adams song -- moreso than a Rod Stewart arrangement......And yeah -- I know Rod Stewart sang his own version of that same song -- so, I can understand why some people might think the Enterprise Theme version sounded like Rod Stewart, but I think the song as a whole (vocals and arrangement) had very much a Bryan Adams vibe going, and was not in character to what Rod Stewart normally does.
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Rod Stewart has actually recorded the song. It made the top 10 in America,I felt it was more Bryan Adams-esque (or more specifically, I said it was "almost, but not quite entirely, unlike Bryan Adams", to paraphrase Douglas Adams [no relation to Bryan]
I definitely agree with that sentiment. However, personally, the fact that it does take place in the Prime timeline provides me with a bit of extra value just because it does take place in the ENT/TOS/TNG et al timeline. That connection is worth something to me. It's not the most important aspect at all. I'd take good storytelling over that any day. But, if it can tell good stories *and* be in Prime that's even better.
Agreed about the costumes and sets just being window dressing.
Yes -- I hit "reply" too early, prior to finishing my thoughts. I was editing my post at the same time you were writing yours.
I felt the Enterprise theme was more Bryan Adams-esque (or more specifically, I said it was "almost, but not quite entirely, unlike Bryan Adams", to paraphrase Douglas Adams [no relation to Bryan]
...And yeah -- I know Rod Stewart sang his own version of that same song -- so, I can understand why some people might think the Enterprise Theme version sounded like Rod Stewart, but I think the song as a whole (vocals and arrangement) had very much a Bryan Adams vibe going, and was not in character to what Rod Stewart normally does.
The scratchy quality of his voice is what made me think of Rod Stewart's "Great American Songbook" series style. If it makes you think of "almost, but not quite entirely, unlike Bryan Adams" you'll get no argument from me.
As a hard core TOS fan who loves the original series more than any other, I disagree. The promo they had made me bery excited and intersted in Discovery. The 'small things' like teh comunicator, et. al, were nice - but what got me was te temperment of the characters (includiing Sarek). <--- That's the element of teh TOS era I missed the most during TNG. The fact that the characters weren't these perfect PC people.
In TOS they were 'better' and more tolerant than we are today - but they still had differing opinions on many things and discussed and argued them. It was an era where everyone was always on the same page constantly giving each other knowing nods.
To this day one of my favorite scenes from Star Trek illustrating the difference is from TOS "The Corbomite Manuever":
^^^
What do I love about that scene? The fact they were confounded and nearly resigned to their fate UNTIL - because of a (still friendly) argument, Kirk got the idea of a way to possibly get out of it/survive the situation and maybe turn the tables, which he ultimately did (although some might argue he also just extended the time on Balok's first contact test, but still,
)You'd never get something likke the above from one of TNG's corporate boardroom scenes - like say, the one they had in "Q-Who" where Riker decides it's a great idea to beam aboard the Borg Cube.
And again TOS showed that in general that not having everyone in agreement didn't mean they couldn't do their jobs, or that they were any worse off.
But in the end, and back to the point, it's more a return to that kind or era and those types of character relations that has me excited. YMMV.
"Cowboy Diplomacy" at its best.
I think they tried a similar shoot-from-the-hip approach in Enterprise, but Archer could sometimes get to emotionally unfocused to make it believable, or just be an uninteresting/uninspired block of wood to make it work and was always condescendingly smacked down by T'Pol or the Vulcan High Command, particularly in the early seasons.
Here's hoping they go back to that a bit in Discovery. 24th century captains (Picard, Janeway) always looked at the 22nd and 23rd centuries with a certain level of condescension and pomposity themselves. Criticizing the "frontier attitude" of earlier Captains like Kirk & Sulu always seemed to make them feel good about their own catastrophic fuck-ups. It would be quite in-canon to have this new crew follow the original "wagon train to the stars" mantra that made TOS so successful (in the fans' eyes, anyway). When you're working out in unexplored deep space, adhering strictly to the rules doesn't always make sense a lot of the time.
I think they tried a similar shoot-from-the-hip approach in Enterprise, but Archer could sometimes get to emotionally unfocused to make it believable, or just be an uninteresting/uninspired block of wood to make it work and was always condescendingly smacked down by T'Pol or the Vulcan High Command, particularly in the early seasons.
Here's hoping they go back to that a bit in Discovery. 24th century captains (Picard, Janeway) always looked at the 22nd and 23rd centuries with a certain level of condescension and pomposity themselves. Criticizing the "frontier attitude" of earlier Captains like Kirk & Sulu always seemed to make them feel good about their own catastrophic fuck-ups. It would be quite in-canon to have this new crew follow the original "wagon train to the stars" mantra that made TOS so successful (in the fans' eyes, anyway). When you're working out in unexplored deep space, adhering strictly to the rules doesn't always make sense a lot of the time.
As a hard core TOS fan who loves the original series more than any other, I disagree. The promo they had made me bery excited and intersted in Discovery. The 'small things' like teh comunicator, et. al, were nice - but what got me was te temperment of the characters (includiing Sarek). <--- That's the element of teh TOS era I missed the most during TNG. The fact that the characters weren't these perfect PC people.
In TOS they were 'better' and more tolerant than we are today - but they still had differing opinions on many things and discussed and argued them. It was an era where everyone was always on the same page constantly giving each other knowing nods.
To this day one of my favorite scenes from Star Trek illustrating the difference is from TOS "The Corbomite Manuever":
^^^
What do I love about that scene? The fact they were confounded and nearly resigned to their fate UNTIL - because of a (still friendly) argument, Kirk got the idea of a way to possibly get out of it/survive the situation and maybe turn the tables, which he ultimately did (although some might argue he also just extended the time on Balok's first contact test, but still,
You'd never get something likke the above from one of TNG's corporate boardroom scenes - like say, the one they had in "Q-Who" where Riker decides it's a great idea to beam aboard the Borg Cube.
And again TOS showed that in general that not having everyone in agreement didn't mean they couldn't do their jobs, or that they were any worse off.
But in the end, and back to the point, it's more a return to that kind or era and those types of character relations that has me excited. YMMV.
Those are some of the reasons I also enjoy TOS but I do wonder if you can really capture that spirit without the camp and the fact that show does feel dated, but dated in a good way because it makes it feel different. Granted I became a fan of Trek in 94 so I can see how that stuff might be different if you had grown up with it almost from the beginning.
For me just moving away from the Roddenberry vision of TNG doesn't make me think it will for certain feel like TOS. I could see it feeling more like DS9 or Stargate. I'm excited no matter what it will feel like because I am open to the idea of it either feeling like old school trek or a brand new thing. I will be happy either way as long as it's good.
I would proably prefer a 3rd universe setting that captures the spirit of TOS and something like Buffy but then again I have liked shows that surprise me. I avoided "Mr Robot" for it's first season because I thought the show was going to be a cheesy USA channel show about a robot that looked human. Hell I was even half expecting a robot to show up in the pilot episode almost up until the final scene. Turns out I was completely wrong and the show was great for what it is.
Jason
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It was originally written for Rod Stewart, Enterprise was the cover version....
This show is officially, canonically, set in the "prime universe", aka it is in continuity with ENT, TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and the TOS & TNG movies. Contrasted to the "Kelvin universe", which is the continuity of the 3 nuTrek movies (and potentially ENT, although this part is debatable after the "effects backward in time"- approach of Beyond).
These are the two timelines that officially exist. And DIS is part of the former, not the latter.
Every fan is of course allowed to have his own interpretation and/or headcanon. Like @BillJ 's approach, where TMP and ENT already were reboots. However, those are fanon theories, and different from official canon.
The point is settled.
Can we please move the "I think DIS is a reboot"-theories and arguments to their respective fan interpretation-threats? And not try to argue facts?
Or maybe change the threat-title to "THEORY: Discovery is set in the Kelvin timeline/ a reboot even though not confirmed"?
These are the two timelines that officially exist. And DIS is part of the former, not the latter.
Every fan is of course allowed to have his own interpretation and/or headcanon. Like @BillJ 's approach, where TMP and ENT already were reboots. However, those are fanon theories, and different from official canon.
The point is settled.
Can we please move the "I think DIS is a reboot"-theories and arguments to their respective fan interpretation-threats? And not try to argue facts?
Or maybe change the threat-title to "THEORY: Discovery is set in the Kelvin timeline/ a reboot even though not confirmed"?
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