Kelvin Timeline all but confirmed

[TonyC]

I'm sorry, but I just can't understand CBS and TPTB @ Discovery for doing this 'bait and switch' with Discovery.
First, they say 'it's Prime' even though it LOOKS like the Kelvin universe. I've seen a lot of replies saying' You CAN'T expect 2017 tv to be 1966 tv and try to pass off the look of 'The Cage/Menagerie' as NOW. Why?

Is it really that hard to get the uniforms to look at least as much like TOS as JJ's films?
Is it really that hard to tweak Klingons so they don't look like monsters?
Is it really so hard to have the Discovery design fit with the other designs we've seen and read about since FJ's TM?
The Enterprise in JJ's films looks like the Enterprise (sorta), if you squint. lol (I'm NOT a fan of that ship.)
Making the bridge even more better than it did in 'Relics' or 'IaMD' is easy, or tweak the ENT bridge to resemble the pre-TOS bridge slightly. (I think I'm saying take the ENT bridge and TOS it up a little, not too much.)

All those that are pushing the JJ Kelvin timeline as 'the one to rule them all'...whose faces are on the merchandise? Prime figures, prime novels, etc. The TOS Prime era is still the money maker, the Kelvin era isn't. Remember when their figures were flying off the shelf for ST:B? No? Nobody bought the ones from ST 09. (I saw them on clearance at a TRU in 2010, bought them, then gave them to a children's hospital.)

Whose ship is usually made into a model? The Prime Enterprise(s)..
Yes, we all have our favorite era(s) of Trek. I've watched TOS since syndication in the 70s, watched everything since, bought every author's novels (even the fanficcy ones) I LOVE Trek, my son and I bonded over TOS, I appreciate all the Trek we've had since 1966.

I'm disappointed in Trek for the 1st time with Discovery. I know CBS needs this show for CBSAA, but don't tell us it's steak then give us Turkey.

 

[Jayson1]

Not a failing, just personal preference.



Please tell me you're joking.... Just because, in his few appereances, Mark Leonard's Sarke never mentioned Burnham's character, doesn't mean they were not well connected. And why does it matter if and when I watch Discovery IF I ever marathon Star Trek. And I truly hope that your comment about head-canon was just jest, and that you don't actually expect ALL Star Trek fans to have head-canon that connects everything to everything. Sometimes stuff just doesn't connect.

Well I was mostly joking but head canon isn't really all that hard to do with most canon issue's. The books have been able to write around just about everything, including the idea that the Eugenic's War really did happen in the 90's and even though this isn't a canon issue I have always asumed that McCoy died in the 24th century around the same time the actor did. Their is a comic book were McCoy is basically on his death bed and Spock shows up to be with him that I have always like to imagine that moment is how it happened in the 24th century. Of course all the stuff we imagine can be wiped away which is fine with me. For example the idea that we never saw Romulans till "TOS" was something I was always comfortable with the idea that their looks were made a secret. Then "Enterprise" did the episode with the unmanned ship's which I think we are supose to see as the offical reason how the war was fought so I just accepted it.
Their is nothing wrong with running with your own idea's, and then change them later if a show reveals something different or even if you like a better idea yourself.
Jason

 

[Brainsucker]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Kelvin timeline start AFTER this series takes place?

I don't think so. The start of Kelvin Timeline (Where Kirk's father died) was happen before Discovery. Because it was the time where Kirk was born. But Discovery was only 10 years away before the start of TOS. You can't be think that a 10 years old boy command a Starship, aren't you?

 

[Lance]

Am I the only person who really isn't fussed at all if it's a prequel to Prime TOS or a prequel to Kelvin TOS? Either way it's a prequel to Kirk/Spock/Uhura/etc. To be sure, and to my mind, I'd be happy to retroactively consider it a part of the Kelvin timeline until such time as on screen events specifically place it in the prime one, as the aesthetic comparisons are much closer for me. (Especially those Klingons.) I already consider 'Enterprise' to belong to the Kelvin timeline rather than the Prime inside my head-canon, so Discovery filling that gap between the two doesn't trouble me.
(Controversial? Maybe. )

And also, what this guy said:

This. The Kelvin Timeline is Star Trek with modern special effects, aesthetics, and sensibilities. So of course Discovery is going to carry over some of that look.

I never really saw a problem with simply conflating the Kelvin aesthetic, or even the 'Enterprise' aesthetic, as being what TOS really looked like without 1960s/1970s/1980s production limitations. The modernized uniforms in particular can easily be seen as being simply more detailed versions of what they wore back in TOS, especially after they introduced longer sleeved female variants in 'Beyond'. And things like the viewscreen having all those technical doo-dads on it is really just a flashier looking version of things like the Romulus map being brought up on the viewscreen in "Balance of Terror". Or the Kobyashi Maru tactical display thing in TWOK. Frankly, I think some Star Trek fans have sometimes got a habit of getting way too uptight about this kind of thing.

 

[Mr Awe]

From what I've seen (right now), I can't make Discovery/TOS fit together. Maybe that's a failing on my part? But, I doubt CBS cares how I rationalize/treat the differences as long as I'm subscribing to their service.

It's also because you haven't seen squat from Discover. Nothing but a short, highly edited batch of clips. Of course it won't seem to fit with anything.

At this point, you really shouldn't even be trying to piece it together. There's just not enough to go on. Let's wait until the series actually "airs."

 

[Brainsucker]

Kelvin is not in the so-called "Prime" timeline.

If I play the idiot card do I automatically win the argument?

This is simply wrong. The USS Kelvin itself was built prior the start of Kelvin Era. So it was a Prime Timeline Ship

 

[dahj]

Is it really that hard to get the uniforms to look at least as much like TOS as JJ's films?

You really think if the uniforms were more JJish that people would complain less?

 

[captainkirk]

You really think if the uniforms were more JJish that people would complain less?

Well the movie uniforms look way more like the TOS uniforms. What's interesting is that there were ideas for making the Kelvin look much more like a TOS ship:

Now the Kelvin is one of my favorite ships, so I don't know how I'd feel if it looked like this instead, but it shows that J.J. was willing to consider the idea of some level of 60s aesthetic.

 

[Jayson1]

You really think if the uniforms were more JJish that people would complain less?

I think the big issue with the uniforms is the lack of color scheme's for rank. I still think we might see that when we see stuff set on "Discovery." I could even see the show transition into more traditional looking uniforms as the show moves forward. We have seen uniform changes before in the middle of the shows. TNG and DS9 both did it.

Jason

 

[fireproof78]

You really think if the uniforms were more JJish that people would complain less?

Yeah, I have a hard time believing that if Fuller stated that he used JJ's films for inspiration it would be more acceptable among fans, considering the "Not real Star Trek" that continues on to this day.

Well the movie uniforms look way more like the TOS uniforms. What's interesting is that there were ideas for making the Kelvin look much more like a TOS ship:

Now the Kelvin is one of my favorite ships, so I don't know how I'd feel if it looked like this instead, but it shows that J.J. was willing to consider the idea of some level of 60s aesthetic.

I think the Kelvin is a fantastic design, but that TOS look you posted is very sharp looking. I think it reminds me more of the Saladin class and the lines feel a little bit more sleek.

 

[BillJ]

I think the Kelvin is a fantastic design, but that TOS look you posted is very sharp looking. I think it reminds me more of the Saladin class and the lines feel a little bit more sleek.

I think it shows that the exterior aesthetic of TOS could work in a modern context.

 

[fireproof78]

I think it shows that the exterior aesthetic of TOS could work in a modern context.

For the ship design, I absolutely agree. For the design of the tech look, I'm not as certain.

 

[BillJ]

For the ship design, I absolutely agree. For the design of the tech look, I'm not as certain.

Tech you would have to absolutely update. Though stylistically, I think you could come up with something that is both modern and a nod to what came before.

Though, a reboot pretty much solves all those issues without the teeth gnashing.

 

[captainkirk]

Tech you would have to absolutely update. Though stylistically, I think you could come up with something that is both modern and a nod to what came before.

There was this early design for the 2009 phasers which is much nicer than the ones in the movie and more like the TOS ones:

Then there's this prototype Nokia phone which actually looks a lot like the little bit we've seen of the Discovery communicator:

Though, a reboot pretty much solves all those issues without the teeth gnashing.

There will always be teeth gnashing. Probably something about Gene's vision and raped childhoods.

 

[mos6507]

Seeing these unused ideas from JJ Trek just reaffirm the notion that JJ's own personal bad taste is largely responsible for what we wound up with. It's nice to know some artists in Hollywood actually can come up with a decent design. I guess it's catchy as Alex Kurtzman has some of the same affliction.

 

[BillJ]

Seeing these unused ideas from JJ Trek just reaffirm the notion that JJ's own personal bad taste is largely responsible for what we wound up with. It's nice to know some artists in Hollywood actually can come up with a decent design. I guess it's catchy as Alex Kurtzman has some of the same affliction.

Abrams was in a no-win scenario. Regardless of what he picked, someone was going to complain.

 

[Campe]

JJ's own personal bad taste

Subjective. Don't speak for everyone. Thank you.

 

[jamestyler]

It's nice to know some artists in Hollywood actually can come up with a decent design.

Yep. And thankfully they all ended up used in the film

 

[fireproof78]

There was this early design for the 2009 phasers which is much nicer than the ones in the movie and more like the TOS ones:

Then there's this prototype Nokia phone which actually looks a lot like the little bit we've seen of the Discovery communicator:

There will always be teeth gnashing. Probably something about Gene's vision and raped childhoods.

Hmmm...I'm going to have to figure out a way to make those.

Abrams was in a no-win scenario. Regardless of what he picked, someone was going to complain.

Even with Star Wars, which is "where he belongs" he didn't escape unscathed. Hollywood is a rather thankless job.

ETA: And I just read the tag line for "John Wick 2": "He was given an impossible task. Let's just say he made it work."

Seems appropriate.

Yep. And thankfully they all ended up used in the film

Some of the best design work I've seen in Star Trek in a while

 

[captainkirk]

Even with Star Wars, which is "where he belongs" he didn't escape unscathed. Hollywood is a rather thankless job.

Were there complaints that he made it feel too much like Star Trek?