Kelvin Timeline all but confirmed

[Amaris]

My preference would of been simply to set it in the future (post Nemesis). And I'm not just saying this for canon preservation issues but also from a creative viewpoint. Clean slate, can do anything they want, put the Federation in peril etc. Still don't understand why they didn't do this.

How many people are interested in a 25th century Star Trek series beyond a section of the fans? Personally, Voyager wore me out on that whole idea, where we see the same basic tropes continuing along a tired path. I'm tired of seeing technology gets even more mystical and convoluted, where humanity continues to descend to a milquetoast existence. They would have to change up everything, and if they're going to do that, why not do it closer to Kirk's era? Firstly, it's the era that casual fans and non-fans alike know the best. Secondly, the farther out we get from modern humans and human civilization, the less relatable the characters have the potential of becoming.

I don't care to see 25th century humans engaging in whatever crisis of the week, because it's so far out from the present that I can't even pretend I would ever see it come to pass. The Original Series is set in the 2200s, a date far out enough to be outside of my lifetime, but one that is tantalizingly close enough to see come to fruition.

Your mileage may vary, of course, but if I have to sit through one more series that goes through 10 minutes of technobabble instead of just getting it done, I'll tear what's left of my hair out.

 

[Amaris]

Dude, read my post. I'm talking about the Klingons. I couldn't give a crap about the ships, and special effects being more advanced looking. It's pretty much been established already that, by having the original sets appear on Enterprise, that Starfleet decided for some kind of retro look around the time of TOS. There is no reason, however, for an updated Klingon look. They were fine the way they were.

Has it been decided? If so, by whom? Did you dislike Gene's decision to update the Klingon look between TOS/TAS and The Motion Picture? Why would Gene go against Gene's vision like that?

Right. And that has been explained in-universe. So your argument is the one that's moot.

So if there's an explanation in Discovery, you'll suddenly be okay with it? Because if that is so, you wouldn't jump to conclusions now, before they even get the chance, would you?

 

[trekfan_1]

Based on all available information I think its safe to conclude that Discovery takes place in a Retcon version of the Prime Timeline

ret·con
ˈretkän/
verb
revise (an aspect of a fictional work) retrospectively, typically by introducing a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

So at least keep the alien races looking the same.

Were you alive when TMP came out?

 

[Freman]

Has it been decided? If so, by whom? Did you dislike Gene's decision to update the Klingon look between TOS/TAS and The Motion Picture? Why would Gene go against Gene's vision like that?


So if there's an explanation in Discovery, you'll suddenly be okay with it? Because if that is so, you wouldn't jump to conclusions now, before they even get the chance, would you?

I'm jumping to conclusions right now because the entertainment industry these days seems to be all about changing things just cuz they feel like it, and continuity be damned, and I'm almost 100% positive that this is how this is going to go, too.

That being said, if they explain the different look in the series, then yeah, I'll be okay with it. Sorry, but I was really really excited for a return to the Prime universe, and as soon as I saw the trailer I was instantly disappointed. Especially cuz everything else looked great, and the one thing they changed was something that didn't need to be changed in the first place. Being obsessive compulsive sucks.

 

[Amaris]

I'm jumping to conclusions right now because the entertainment industry these days seems to be all about changing things just cuz they feel like it, and continuity be damned, and I'm almost 100% positive that this is how this is going to go, too.

That being said, if they explain the different look in the series, then yeah, I'll be okay with it. Sorry, but I was really really excited for a return to the Prime universe, and as soon as I saw the trailer I was instantly disappointed. Especially cuz everything else looked great, and the one thing they changed was something that didn't need to be changed in the first place. Being obsessive compulsive sucks.

Designs change in almost 20 years. If the show would have carried the 1990s aesthetic we saw in TNG, DS9, or Voyager, the show would have been laughed off the air. People remember that aesthetic and associate it with nostalgia. Some TV shows can make the nostalgia work (Mad Men, for example), but if you don't update the design and cultural aesthetic on a show that is supposed to be a modern take on the future of humanity, you won't bring in new fans. As I've stated over and over again, the reason the new series has a similarity to the Abrams films is because the Abrams films use modern design choices. The new series is also using modern design choices. They will share that similarity. If you don't like it, there are 700+ episodes of Star Trek that will take you down memory lane, but that doesn't belong in the here and now. Its time has passed. New Star Trek for a new audience.

 

[trekfan_1]

How many people are interested in a 25th century Star Trek series beyond a section of the fans? Personally, Voyager wore me out on that whole idea, where we see the same basic tropes continuing along a tired path. I'm tired of seeing technology gets even more mystical and convoluted, where humanity continues to descend to a milquetoast existence. They would have to change up everything, and if they're going to do that, why not do it closer to Kirk's era? Firstly, it's the era that casual fans and non-fans alike know the best. Secondly, the farther out we get from modern humans and human civilization, the less relatable the characters have the potential of becoming.

I don't care to see 25th century humans engaging in whatever crisis of the week, because it's so far out from the present that I can't even pretend I would ever see it come to pass. The Original Series is set in the 2200s, a date far out enough to be outside of my lifetime, but one that is tantalizingly close enough to see come to fruition.

Your mileage may vary, of course, but if I have to sit through one more series that goes through 10 minutes of technobabble instead of just getting it done, I'll tear what's left of my hair out.

All of what you said would make sense assuming the writers would of felt it necessary to stay on the same linear path as previously depicted in Star Trek which equates: Further in the future = more tech and less raw human emotion interaction. If they simply set Discovery even 30ish years after Nemesis and released the same show they are releasing now (with maybe a few modifications), I don't think people would scream "hey all the characters are acting too real!" "This is the future, I want every thing to look sterile." 'Theres not enough holograms"

They simply could of done a "tonal reboot" of sorts and shown a raw, edgier depiction within Star Trek's future. I guarantee there would be less complaints about lack of 'future' continuity (less technobablle where there should theoretically be more) than there is setting it in the TOS era. Obviously some technical advancements could be shown, but It would not be the focus of the show.

 

[{ Emilia }]

The show looks a bit like the Kelvin timeline because both are produced now and not in the 60s.

I honestly don't give a fuck. The visuals have been updated, that says nothing about whether or not the show takes place in PrimeVerse or KelvinVerse. They said it's prime so it's prime.

I think the one thing I'm really a bit sad about is that the show looks so dark. The set is slick but it seems darker than JJTrek which I love for its clean aesthetics. That includes the uniforms.

I love JJTrek's take on the old uniforms and the clean colors. I never quite liked the ENT uniforms that look like the crew are plumbers.

 

[Timo]

What I'm wondering here is whether there will be a stylistic difference between the Shenzou and the Discovery. I mean, it seems there will be a transition from one ship to another - so how will this transition be marked? Just a slight rearranging of the bridge set? Or a jump to a noticeably different visual style?

The Shenzou supposedly is the old ship, the Discovery the new one. Just in terms of how the drama unfolds, or also in terms of the in-universe ages of the ships? Will the eventual hero ship be closer to TOS in style (that is, closer to the Abramsverse), or even farther distanced from it?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Amaris]

All of what you said would make sense assuming the writers would of felt it necessary to stay on the same linear path as previously depicted in Star Trek which equates: Further in the future = more tech and less raw human emotion interaction. If they simply set Discovery even 30ish years after Nemesis and released the same show they are releasing now (with maybe a few modifications), I don't think people would scream "hey all the characters are acting to real!" "This is the future, I want every thing to look sterile."

They simply could of done a "tonal reboot" of sorts and shown a raw, edgier depiction in Star Trek's future.

Except you would get the same complaints. People want their new and different Star Trek to be the same old new and different Star Trek they're accustomed to from years past. As you've seen so far, I'm sure, any creative changes like lighting, technology, more refined makeup for aliens, is seen as a heresy. Because Klingons have darker skin color and more defined ridges, it isn't Star Trek. Because the bridge of the Shenzou looks like a more modern concept of a futuristic bridge, instead of a primary color paint set exploding against the walls, it's not Star Trek. Set the show 30 years past Nemesis, but add more creative and colorful characters with bold stories, instead of tech ridden, procedure driven storylines helmed by avatars of what a machine thinks are humans, and it's no longer Gene's vision. No matter what you do, a sect of the fandom will be angry, so you go with the option that will bring in more casual fans, which builds revenue: the original series, which has been doing bangup at the box office.

 

[Freman]

Designs change in almost 20 years. If the show would have carried the 1990s aesthetic we saw in TNG, DS9, or Voyager, the show would have been laughed off the air. People remember that aesthetic and associate it with nostalgia. Some TV shows can make the nostalgia work (Mad Men, for example), but if you don't update the design and cultural aesthetic on a show that is supposed to be a modern take on the future of humanity, you won't bring in new fans. As I've stated over and over again, the reason the new series has a similarity to the Abrams films is because the Abrams films use modern design choices. The new series is also using modern design choices. They will share that similarity. If you don't like it, there are 700+ episodes of Star Trek that will take you down memory lane, but that doesn't belong in the here and now. Its time has passed. New Star Trek for a new audience.

You're missing the whole point of my complaint. Yes, I get everything you're saying. But do you HONESTLY believe keeping the Klingons looking the way they did on TNG would make any difference whatsoever to how many pppl watch Discovery?
No, it wouldn't have. They said the show is set in the Prime timeline, so keep certain things consistent with the Prime timeline. Plain and simple. If you want to use Kelvinverse stuff, then set the damn show in the Kelvinverse.

 

[Amaris]

You're missing the whole point of my complaint. Yes, I get everything you're saying. But do you HONESTLY believe keeping the Klingons looking the way they did on TNG would make any difference whatsoever to how many pppl watch Discovery?
No, it wouldn't have. They said the show is set in the Prime timeline, so keep certain things consistent with the Prime timeline. Plain and simple. If you want to use Kelvinverse stuff, then set the damn show in the Kelvinverse.

Then why do you care? If it truly doesn't make a difference, then why complain about the aesthetics of a show being produced some 23 years after the TNG television era moved on?

 

[{ Emilia }]

What I'm wondering here is whether there will be a stylistic difference between the Shenzou and the Discovery. I mean, it seems there will be a transition from one ship to another - so how will this transition be marked? Just a slight rearranging of the bridge set? Or a jump to a noticeably different visual style?

I'm kinda hoping for that, even hoping that they will indeed give us JJTrek-style uniforms instead of updated ENT plumber uniforms but I guess I find that pretty unlikely.

You're missing the whole point of my complaint. Yes, I get everything you're saying. But do you HONESTLY believe keeping the Klingons looking the way they did on TNG would make any difference whatsoever to how many pppl watch Discovery?
No, it wouldn't have. They said the show is set in the Prime timeline, so keep certain things consistent with the Prime timeline. Plain and simple. If you want to use Kelvinverse stuff, then set the damn show in the Kelvinverse.

If you want to make a new show, you get to update the aesthetics to some degree. There's consistency anyway: Klingons always looked stupid, this new version does, too. I suppose I regret never having seen 1990s Klingons doing the headbanging thing at a Heavy Metal concert. Fuck Klingon opera.

 

[SolarisOne]

Um... the producers have said it's set in the Prime universe--more than once.

I, for one, am grateful they've updated the aesthetic. The TOS aesthetic is hopelessly outdated, and was even back when TNG premiered. The TNG era aesthetic has held up much better (after all, touchscreen devices are all the rage now and most of us carry the real-world equivalent of PADDs in our pockets,) but newer fans are still going to want something that looks even more modern.

 

[Freman]

Wow. I have explained over and over why I care. I'm an oldschool fan. Any new changes to make it more Kelvinversey is being done to cater to the JJTrek audience.

And ppl, please read my posts before replying to them. I'm not talking about the general aesthetic changes to the show, I'm talking abou the Klingons. That's it. I fully understand that they aren't going to make some show that looks like it came out of the 60s. But there was nothing wrong with the TNG era look for the Klingons.

I don't know, maybe they'll have some kind of explanation. I'm just gonna go back to ignoring this show until it actually comes out. lol

 

[cultcross]

I never quite liked the ENT uniforms that look like the crew are plumbers.

Was always my favourite bit of that show's look, the uniform. Seemed a perfect melding of a modern day flight suit with elements from all the later Trek uniforms. ENT didn't do much I enjoyed but those uniforms I thought were spot on.

 

[SolarisOne]

Wow. I have explained over and over why I care. I'm an oldschool fan. Any new changes to make it more Kelvinversey is being done to cater to the JJTrek audience.

You can always go watch one of the fan series that use the "oldschool" elements.

 

[{ Emilia }]

Wow. I have explained over and over why I care. I'm an oldschool fan. Any new changes to make it more Kelvinversey is being done to cater to the JJTrek audience.

Any updating of the aesthetics is done because the show isn't produced in the 1960s. They're not catering to the JJTrek audience, they're catering to the year 2017.

Was always my favourite bit of that show's look, the uniform. Seemed a perfect melding of a modern day flight suit with elements from all the later Trek uniforms. ENT didn't do much I enjoyed but those uniforms I thought were spot on.

I liked ENT but never liked the uniforms. Do you get all excited whenever you see plumbers in real life, wondering if they're Starfleet personnel on an important mission from the future?

 

[cultcross]

I'm an oldschool fan

So are we. And what we were a fan of is now pretty dated. To become a fan of a new show assuring for the first time, I'd like it to reflect the time it's made in, rather than replicate a look designed in the 1980s.

 

[cultcross]

I liked ENT but never liked the uniforms. Do you get all excited whenever you see plumbers in real life, wondering if they're Starfleet personnel on an important mission from the future?

Oh I do. But a boy can dream...