Keeping Tasha

[Uncle Sock]

You have some great ideas. I'm all for getting Picard out as a regular and shifting things around. It's established early on that Picard has had a very full career as a captain, IIRC, twenty-two years. He then spent nine years on special missions before the Enterprise-D. I could see Picard finally accepting a promotion in season one or two and promoting Riker to captain. Both of them would actually have true character development in this way which was, of course, anathema to the writers/producers.

I like the idea of Yar as XO, too. She and Riker would have been an interesting command duo.

Interesting. I would’ve kicked out Riker, but I can definitely see Picard getting reassigned. And honestly, that might’ve worked out way better. Having Riker in command of another ship could’ve created all sorts of story problems. But if Picard had been promoted to admiral, he could’ve still shown up occasionally—maybe even as the occasional "Badmiral." He could’ve stuck around, if that’s what Patrick Stewart wanted.

Now that Riker’s the new captain, I’m getting some Riker-Shelby vibes from this setup. Except Riker actually trusts Yar, and she’s probably nothing like Shelby. But she could have been.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

...although making Worf the new CMO could have worked to both hilarious and possibly profound effect (the most obvious problem being he likely has no real experience with medicine).

Well, he is the only non-"blue shirt" cast member that we know has any kind of medical training (roughly to EMT level, including emergency childbirth!), so there's that.

You have some great ideas. I'm all for getting Picard out as a regular and shifting things around. It's established early on that Picard has had a very full career as a captain, IIRC, twenty-two years. He then spent nine years on special missions before the Enterprise-D.

Pretty much. We know that he spend between 2333 and 2355 in command of the Stargazer (which means he was a Captain by title and rank), and that he took command of the E-D in '64. His activities during the timeskip are largely unknown canonically and highly inconsistent in tie-in media but we know that he spent the bulk of it not on a starship (per a comment in Rascals he has spent roughly thirty years of a forty-two year career on starships to that date).

I like the idea of Yar as XO, too. She and Riker would have been an interesting command duo.

Now that Riker’s the new captain, I’m getting some Riker-Shelby vibes from this setup. Except Riker actually trusts Yar, and she’s probably nothing like Shelby. But she could have been.

Shelby does seem to be another bite at that apple (I've sometimes commented that Yar seems like the Second Officer at least as often if not more than Data does in S1), but IMO Yar would've had an easier time of because of the trust factor as you suggest.

 

[Riley]

I'll disagree that 20 episode seasons still work.
There's a lot of women that binge Grey's anatomy, and there's a lot of men that Binge House.
Also, Odo may not have pop culture appeal...but Worf does, and a good chunk of Worf's arc is on DS9.
Also, James Gunn isn't creatively bankrupt, I enjoy the hell out of James Gunn and Troma.
Suicide Squad and Superman were more fun than the depression in movies I've seen in a movie theater in 10 years.

That’s pretty sad, but true. Kirk wasn’t an essential part of the story at all and for me that’s kind of unforgivable. He should have been integral and not a cherry on top. Such a disservice to a truly iconic character.



Am I misremembering or did the actress who played Picard’s wife in the Nexus play the crew member who had lost her husband (and who had to endure Troi’s insufferable histrionics) in “The Loss”? Maybe she was still on board and they could have made a new life together?

Seeing how utterly toxic the Picard/Crusher relationship was in PIC completely soured me on that pairing. Retrospectively and forever!

Interesting. I would’ve kicked out Riker, but I can definitely see Picard getting reassigned. And honestly, that might’ve worked out way better. Having Riker in command of another ship could’ve created all sorts of story problems. But if Picard had been promoted to admiral, he could’ve still shown up occasionally—maybe even as the occasional "Badmiral." He could’ve stuck around, if that’s what Patrick Stewart wanted.

Now that Riker’s the new captain, I’m getting some Riker-Shelby vibes from this setup. Except Riker actually trusts Yar, and she’s probably nothing like Shelby. But she could have been.

She definitely could have developed some Shelby-like traits...of course, with Berman involved, you couldn't have too much conflict between the Starfleet crewmembers. All the tension Riker and Shelby had went out the airlock once she stuck around longer than one episode. The tension between Riker and Ro went the same route. Yar wouldn't have been much different.

Well, he is the only non-"blue shirt" cast member that we know has any kind of medical training (roughly to EMT level, including emergency childbirth!), so there's that.

Shelby does seem to be another bite at that apple (I've sometimes commented that Yar seems like the Second Officer at least as often if not more than Data does in S1), but IMO Yar would've had an easier time of because of the trust factor as you suggest.

Agreed. I think Data was seen as a capable science and Ops officer but his role as second officer was not given much attention early on. He was often on away team missions in the early seasons and command went to LaForge if Picard and Riker were gone. "Measure of A Man" changed all of that in a sterling example of the kind of rich character development the series should have mainted throughout its seven years.

 

[Mojochi]

I really like the suggestion in this thread that La Forge still could’ve become chief engineer while Worf stepped in as the permanent helmsman. That’s not something I would’ve thought of myself. The downside is that Worf probably wouldn’t have gotten much character growth in that role.

I'm not sure that's true. I get the sense the writers were quite eager to explore Klingons, even putting Worf at the center of Heart of Glory in S1. They were the one legacy alien species from TOS that hadn't been deliberately shunned, because its latest incarnation was now associated with the film franchise. It was that movie momentum they were trying to build on, & in some ways, distance themselves from what was seen as the hokey 60s show aesthetic. Its the main reason Worf was put in there at all. It was recognizably Modern Star Trek

I think it was inevitable that Worf would get development, wherever he landed, due to the alienness appeal. It was mandated that Wesley would (due to Roddenberry) & it was inescapable that fan favorites Data & Picard would. TBH, Crosby was probably right about her character, potentially falling off in presence, after she'd turned out to be the least interesting of everybody there in season one imho, except maybe Beverly. (who was also dropped) I think Sirtis (who reportedly was also on the chopping block) only survived by being gorgeous, exotic, & doing weirdly alien things. (Plus Majel was playing her mom)

I really can't see the writing team wanting Worf in engineering. Geordi was virtually a walking advertisement for techno-plot, wearing that visor around. He, more than anyone but Data, represented the science aesthetic of the cast. Worf was a shoe-in for some kind of bridge duty IMHO. It showcased the progressiveness of modern Starfleet, a Klingon now being there.

They really overcrowded that main cast, up front. Riker mostly got placed as a young leading man type, to Picard's elder statesman, archetype, a holdover from Phase II's Decker/ Kirk planned dynamic. There was way more overlap there than I think they figured on, because Stewart surprisingly turned out to have unexpected sex appeal with the audience.

I really think Tasha was the obvious poor fit. It wouldn't be until Ro Laren, until they'd figure out the right way to write the strong woman archetype. Tasha, in that dynamic, always fell flat, played campy, or looked phony. I think she could see the writing on the wall. Most of the other ensemble players were way more interesting. Heck, even Yesterday's Enterprise, as interesting a plot as it was, couldn't find much for her, throughout its run-time, except a lame romance, & figuring out her fate from Guinan, factors which IMHO held even that episode back some.

If she'd stayed, she'd have likely been the one who went underdeveloped, & maybe Worf would've moved up to helm & Wes would've gotten his tutelage from Geordi in engineering, with input from Riker, or at the bridge work stations, upstage. He could've easily did science things back there, in his silly jumper lol

 

[Riley]

Mojochi, you make some great points. I agree that the cast was top-heavy and probably could have benefitted from being smaller. I personally think you could lose both Crushers and eventually have Picard leave the show and become an admiral and it would be far stronger as a result.

You also make some excellent points about Worf. I was thinking about this thread the other day and it occurred to me: what if, instead of Michael Dorn as Worf, Denise Crosby had played a female Klingon? The name "Yar" probably could have stayed. That would have been ahead of its time for sure, but I think it would have solved Crosby's desire to have more to do. She's not only a tough woman in a command position, she's also an alien. She'd have had a lot more to play with as an actor. The first Klingon in Starfleet is also a female Klingon...that would have had tons of story potential.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

If you wanted to keep both, Turkana IV could have been at one point Klingon territory. Built-in animosity between the two officers with conflicting viewpoints.

 

[Annorax849]

I actually think she could've been a great character, most likely the best female on TNG. She wasn't that good in season 1, but nobody really was. We saw glimpses of what a season 3-6 Tasha would have been like in Yesterday's Enterprise.

 

[Mojochi]

Mojochi, you make some great points. I agree that the cast was top-heavy and probably could have benefitted from being smaller. I personally think you could lose both Crushers and eventually have Picard leave the show and become an admiral and it would be far stronger as a result.

You also make some excellent points about Worf. I was thinking about this thread the other day and it occurred to me: what if, instead of Michael Dorn as Worf, Denise Crosby had played a female Klingon? The name "Yar" probably could have stayed. That would have been ahead of its time for sure, but I think it would have solved Crosby's desire to have more to do. She's not only a tough woman in a command position, she's also an alien. She'd have had a lot more to play with as an actor. The first Klingon in Starfleet is also a female Klingon...that would have had tons of story potential.

Narratively, & as a fan, I like these ideas a lot. It's from a production standpoint that it gets tough. Losing Wes was not going to be an option. (at 1st) Roddenberry had been pushing hard for him as a hallmark of the series... and while moving Picard into an Admiral role makes sense for the ongoing story, it would've never been approved, as Stewart was the best talent on the show & pulling a lot of interest with the viewers.

Beverly, by large, was the dead weight in season 1, but it gets hard to dump her & keep her kid. Never made sense to me in S2. I feel it was one of several factors that got her job back. The female Klingon idea is fantastic IMHO, but Star Trek in general, at that time, was never going to put a female regular on the show, covered in prosthetic makeup, & lose out on showcasing attractive women. The show's demographic skewed to young male. Even Jadzia got a Trill makeover, to replace that weird prosthetic stuff with simple spotting.

I do think you're on the right track though, that even then, the show could've benefitted by adding more aliens, at least one... Especially Yar. If she'd been still attractive, but in some manner more alien, I could see keeping her around. If Yar had been Bolian? Oh man... that's the stuff! I mean, c'mon, what's more Star Trek than a pretty blue or green lady traipsing about? lol

Imagine Crosby painted pale blue, with snow white hair & a subtle bifurcation line down her face, like the girl from Allegiance. That's the ticket imho

https://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/screencaps/season3/3x18/allegiance_hd_044.jpg

 

[Riley]

Narratively, & as a fan, I like these ideas a lot. It's from a production standpoint that it gets tough. Losing Wes was not going to be an option. (at 1st) Roddenberry had been pushing hard for him as a hallmark of the series... and while moving Picard into an Admiral role makes sense for the ongoing story, it would've never been approved, as Stewart was the best talent on the show & pulling a lot of interest with the viewers.

Beverly, by large, was the dead weight in season 1, but it gets hard to dump her & keep her kid. Never made sense to me in S2. I feel it was one of several factors that got her job back. The female Klingon idea is fantastic IMHO, but Star Trek in general, at that time, was never going to put a female regular on the show, covered in prosthetic makeup, & lose out on showcasing attractive women. The show's demographic skewed to young male. Even Jadzia got a Trill makeover, to replace that weird prosthetic stuff with simple spotting.

I do think you're on the right track though, that even then, the show could've benefitted by adding more aliens, at least one... Especially Yar. If she'd been still attractive, but in some manner more alien, I could see keeping her around. If Yar had been Bolian? Oh man... that's the stuff! I mean, c'mon, what's more Star Trek than a pretty blue or green lady traipsing about? lol

Imagine Crosby painted pale blue, with snow white hair & a subtle bifurcation line down her face, like the girl from Allegiance. That's the ticket imho

https://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/screencaps/season3/3x18/allegiance_hd_044.jpg

I like the way you think! She'd also have made an attractive Andorian, but I don't think TPTB would have used a TOS species at that point in the series. That aside, she could have been a Vulcan security chief years before Tuvok. Lots of possibilities!

 

[Mojochi]

I like the way you think! She'd also have made an attractive Andorian, but I don't think TPTB would have used a TOS species at that point in the series. That aside, she could have been a Vulcan security chief years before Tuvok. Lots of possibilities!

I get the sense early TNG was repulsed by featuring Andorians, & Vulcans, being they were the old hokey aliens, by their sensibilities. It amazed me we even got Selar in S2. I wish she'd have stuck around.

For me, Bolians & Orions were tragically underused at that point, because everybody was all jazzed about the new prosthetic makeup advances, (which admittedly were mighty impressive) but never wanted to go heavy on them with their female regulars. However, even with that new angle they were attempting, I imagine there still could've been a space for a simple green or blue skinned womanly alien, just to add some zhuzh to the overall look.

 

[DonIago]

I get the sense early TNG was repulsed by featuring Andorians, & Vulcans, being they were the old hokey aliens, by their sensibilities. It amazed me we even got Selar in S2. I wish she'd have stuck around.

My understanding was that it was GR himself who generally wanted to avoid linking TNG too heavily back to TOS as far as these things went?

 

[Mojochi]

My understanding was that it was GR himself who generally wanted to avoid linking TNG too heavily back to TOS as far as these things went?

I guess that wouldn't surprise me. The Phase II stuff & film stuff he'd been in favor of had the same notion. I mean, it has a logic to it. The film franchise had a real new vibe. You could imagine worrying that the old campy stuff could hinder it with modern audiences.

To those involved in production, it was a 20 year old IP, that original show, (that got cancelled) but maybe they didn't truly get it, that to the people watching it, those shows were still getting viewership in syndication. No one had really wrapped their head around what was basically a new kind of fandom, that might've loved seeing more of the things they'd been fanatic about getting added in new ways.

Even Shatner had made the joke about it on SNL, that the fandom was wildly misunderstood. You could understand them maybe not entirely knowing how to read that room, & just leaving those past things as much in the past as possible, So to compete in the new Star Wars market.