Keeping Ilia around

[Therin of Andor]

IIRC, his complaint had already been lodged re several novel manuscripts and TNG episodes ("Conspiracy", "Too Short a Season"...) that had recently also featured rogue Starfleet officers.

"Conspiracy" didn't have any rogue Starfleet officers. They'd been taken over by parasitic aliens.

Same effect.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

IIRC, his complaint had already been lodged re several novel manuscripts and TNG episodes ("Conspiracy", "Too Short a Season"...) that had recently also featured rogue Starfleet officers.

"Conspiracy" didn't have any rogue Starfleet officers. They'd been taken over by parasitic aliens.

Same effect.

Only on a superficial level.

 

[EnriqueH]

I see what you're saying, but you're also assuming that Chapel and Rand would not have been reintroduced in the movie.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm glad they weren't traitors.

But Valeris as a traitor was what they call in boxing, "telegraphing your punches". I mean, you saw that betrayal a MILE AWAY. Everyone was acting like we didn't know who it was, but come on. A twist should be a twist. Was anyone surprised that Valeris and Chang were conspirators?

True. It's very much a case of 'Remember the New Guy' symdrome, where we've got this new character and everybody's treating him like an equal, gee I wonder what will happen next? (Kind of like how nobody expected Lieutenant Hawk to see out the end of First Contact, even though all the main characters were treating him like their best buddy).

Oh, totally agree on First Contact's Lt. Hawk.

I can remember being in the theater, and as soon as Picard said, "Lt. Hawk, pursue course. Engage." I knew he was doomed.

Lt. Hawk? Hawk?

They gave the "helmsman of the week" played by a familiar looking character-actor a NAME? And a cool sounding name?

Forget it! The guy's dead meat.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Not only that, I remember reading somewhere that Khambatta was actually hounded to present herself in the shower scene in TMP with Full Frontal Nudity and she was adamantly against that.

...Full frontal nudity in a film that ended up getting a G rating on its initial release? I find that very hard to believe.

Ray Harryhaussen's movies had plenty of nudity for being "G" rated fare and these came out at around the same time. CLASH of the TITANS and SINBAD & the EYE of the TIGER, notably.

I believe there was also violence and nudity in the early "Planet of the Apes" films and "Logan's Run."

No, he's right.

Roddenberry did propose this.

I was just reading that section of "Return to Tomorrow".

I figured it had to be Roddenberry.

Did you ever hear the story about how he proposed that all the Ferengi should have huge male members on TNG? Apparently he went so far as to describe certain sex positions the Ferengi would perform in a show meeting. Finally a writer had to point out to GR that TNG was a syndicated show that aired in early afternoons and Sunday evenings in some markets. Roddenberry went, "Yeah, okay," and dropped it.

Roddenberry was one horny dude, man.

Well, I guess that would explain what Leeta saw in Rom....

Oh, totally agree on First Contact's Lt. Hawk.

I can remember being in the theater, and as soon as Picard said, "Lt. Hawk, pursue course. Engage." I knew he was doomed.

Lt. Hawk? Hawk?

They gave the "helmsman of the week" played by a familiar looking character-actor a NAME? And a cool sounding name?

Forget it! The guy's dead meat.

I haven't seen it in years because I think it's a headache inducing film, but didn't the hot Trill bridge officer in INS have a name as well as a few lines of dialogue?

 

[cardinal biggles]

I can't remember if they ever used it on-screen, but in the script, novelization, and other TNG novels in which she appears, she's named Kell Perim.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

...Full frontal nudity in a film that ended up getting a G rating on its initial release? I find that very hard to believe.

Ray Harryhaussen's movies had plenty of nudity for being "G" rated fare and these came out at around the same time. CLASH of the TITANS and SINBAD & the EYE of the TIGER, notably.

I believe there was also violence and nudity in the early "Planet of the Apes" films and "Logan's Run."

Planet of the Apes (1968) was rated G, but Logan's Run was rated PG.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I believe there was also violence and nudity in the early "Planet of the Apes" films and "Logan's Run."

Planet of the Apes (1968) was rated G, but Logan's Run was rated PG.

The MPAA ratings system was still very new in 1968, and what was allowed under various ratings was still in flux. Heck, I can remember seeing brief nudity in PG-13 films from the mid-80s. I doubt they'd allow that today.

Many films from 60s and 70s have been given new ratings on rerelease. TMP went from a G to a PG on home video release, and Midnight Cowboy went from an X to an R with no changes (largely because the X rating came to be associated with pornography, much like how Showgirls killed the 1990s NC-17 rating).

 

[JonnyQuest037]

IIRC, his complaint had already been lodged re several novel manuscripts and TNG episodes ("Conspiracy", "Too Short a Season"...) that had recently also featured rogue Starfleet officers.

It's a fair comment: have we overdone this type of story?

I don't think Roddenberry was coming at it from a POV of "Hey, we've done this a little too much." I think he was coming at it from a POV of "Starfleet officers would NEVER do this!", and that's a significantly different thing.

It seems to me that 1980s Gene Roddenberry started believing his own press a little too much, and started thinking that people weren't tuning in to Trek for science fiction, action adventure, or drama, they were tuning in to get Gene Roddenberry's Life Philosophies (TM).

And... no. Not when I was 6, not when I was 15, not when I was 22, and certainly not now that I'm 42. YMMV.