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Kahn Vs Data?

ReadyAndWilling

Fleet Captain
Hey guys, I haven't seen the TOS Trek movies, but I've just been watching Star Trek Enter The Darkness and I'm really impressed with Kahn. Data is by far my favorite Trek character so I wanted to know if Data could mentally equal Kahn?

I couldn't find any articles online... Thanks!
 
Re: Khan Vs Data?

Khan never came across as all that brilliant in either appearance. Oh, he could learn fast, but he didn't seem like any kind of super genius.

BTW, it's "Khan" not "Kahn".
 
Re: Khan Vs Data?

Khan never came across as all that brilliant in either appearance. Oh, he could learn fast, but he didn't seem like any kind of super genius.

BTW, it's "Khan" not "Kahn".

Ah, alright well in the Star Trek film he was described as a super-intellect...
 
He's a self-described "superior" and Kirk mocks it. He never really demonstrates brilliance.
 
Re: Khan Vs Data?

Khan never came across as all that brilliant in either appearance. Oh, he could learn fast, but he didn't seem like any kind of super genius.

BTW, it's "Khan" not "Kahn".

Ah, alright well in the Star Trek film he was described as a super-intellect...
Khan may have had a high IQ, but there is a difference between intellect and wisdom, and it is established that the biggest weakness of Khan and other augments is their inflated egos and hubris.

Spock was able to easily figure out how to manipulate Khan and suggest it to Kirk, to get Khan to follow into the Mutara Nebula. I'm sure Data could do something similar.
 
Khan suffers from much the same problem that would render Sherlock Holmes incapable of solving the simplest crime if deported to today: he's a fish out of water. He may be tactically brilliant in 1990s style warfare, but (in the original timeline) he has mere hours to adapt to the 23rd century in "Space Seed" before being defeated by veterans of that style of combat, then spends fifteen years stuck on a planet with no institutes of higher learning for aspiring strategists, and then again only has hours to come up with modern ideas.

Then again, Khan does appear to be a sponge for information, while Holmes was described as unwilling to learn anything new (at least outside his own profession, and he already knew everything about that!). Given a few more hours, he might have come up with something more workable.

In ST:ID, Khan does appear to have come up with a rather brilliant plan. Despite being vastly outgunned by his enemies (essentially the whole universe), he manages to escape from Admiral Marcus, get hold of his 72 helpless compatriots, and almost escape with them. It is an extremely complicated plan, yet it works seamlessly, against enemies at least as driven, quick-witted and/or forward-planning as himself. But his brilliance is countered by his other well-established quality, the arrogance that makes him underestimate Spock at the crucial moment.

It would be inconsistent were any of our heroes to come up with such a complicated yet successful plan - they are more the reactive type. But Data might just barely qualify: he would be the one to see the challenge as a chess game of complex moves and countermoves, something he is especially qualified to tackle, while somebody like Kirk or Picard would think that no plan survives contact with the enemy, and even Spock would acknowledge the logic of dealing with the present first.

Timo Saloniemi
 
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Logical processing capability alone is not equivalent to intelligence. It took many years of trying to beat the beat the best human chess players at chess using a supercomputer, and it finally happened only after the computers were programmed for a specific player. Computers just don't understand bluffing and ruses, or anything that falls out of line with their algo. That's why I think a learning computer would have an advantage.
 
It would be inconsistent were any of our heroes to come up with such a complicated yet successful plan - they are more the reactive type. But Data might just barely qualify: he would be the one to see the challenge as a chess game of complex moves and countermoves, something he is especially qualified to tackle, while somebody like Kirk or Picard would think that no plan survives contact with the enemy, and even Spock would acknowledge the logic of dealing with the present first.

Timo Saloniemi

So, sounds like the makings of an entertaining story.
 
Re: Khan Vs Data?

Khan never came across as all that brilliant in either appearance. Oh, he could learn fast, but he didn't seem like any kind of super genius.

BTW, it's "Khan" not "Kahn".

Ah, alright well in the Star Trek film he was described as a super-intellect...
Khan may have had a high IQ, but there is a difference between intellect and wisdom, and it is established that the biggest weakness of Khan and other augments is their inflated egos and hubris.

Spock was able to easily figure out how to manipulate Khan and suggest it to Kirk, to get Khan to follow into the Mutara Nebula. I'm sure Data could do something similar.

While I would agree with this for the most part, I would also say that -at various times- Data (like Khan) has also demonstrated that his incredible knowledge/intellect has not given him insight into various aspects of human nature and behavior, which could indicate a gap in his own wisdom. Each of these characters may be a bit lacking in some areas of that 'wisdom' department. Although we did see Data gaining more wisdom, IMO, as the series progressed.

"Information is not knowledge,
Knowledge is not wisdom,
Wisdom is not truth,
Truth is not beauty,
Beauty is not love,
Love is not music
and Music is the best!"
-Frank Zappa
 
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Khan would win with his savagery. ( new Khan at least) Data is smarter but probably wouldn't be able to pull off the trickery Kirk and Spock did. Although Data would easily beat Khan in a hand to hand brawl.
 
Khan for his conniving trickiness, but both could squish a man's head and that's what's important here.
 
I forgot to mention Khan would be friends with Lore and probably use him to destroy data! Then he would beat up worf, seduce Troi, and then be beaten by a Picard Speech.
 
I would pay good money to see Ricardo and Patrick have a monologue-off. Though I'd probably have to run for my bunk half-way through.
 
Khan has not really shown himself to be a genius, but I think the line they gave him in STID helps explain him - when he says Marcus wanted him for his "savagery". Khan is proactive, and has no hesitation about doing what others would find unthinkable. Data is reactive, and in a way limited by the ethics he has acquired from human contact and his programming. So Khan could easily divert Data from stopping him by threatening millions of innocents.
OTOH, Khan is a micro-manager, whereas Data can rely on cooperation and initiative of his associates.
It's a rock/paper/scissors dilemma. Maybe we'll get to see it play out in the next reboot ;)
 
Khan needs to micromanage in ST:ID, what with being the only one playing on his side!

In "Space Seed", he delegates to his peril, though. Why not personally oversee Kirk's execution?

Khan is good at seeing weaknesses, although perhaps too eager to see them also where there are none (in Spock, say). He could well find out Data's soon enough. But with just a quick face-to-face assessment, he wouldn't know how eminently capable Data is of murder, deceit and callously deciding on the future of entire species...

Timo Saloniemi
 
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