Yeah, nothing wrong with the character, just the casting, and only in terms of race, seeing as Cumberbatch is clearly a talented actor.
Justin Lin is directing Star Trek XIII
- Thread starter Hythlodeus
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Canada violation!
But race is a very big deal in casting. I won't deny that Cumberbatch is talented, but his talent isn't so gigantic that they couldn't have found his equal or superior in Bollywood. I don't by the money argument because that's the second largest film industry on Earth.
It's risk aversion. But even worse than simple risk aversion, it's a far greater degree of risk aversion than there must have been when casting Ricardo Montalban.
I thought Orci's defense of casting Cumberbatch was very weak. He said he didn't want to cast a person of color as Khan because of the connotation that would have in his mind as othering Khan. But the problem with that thinking is that people of color are not "others." White people aren't supposed to be the default. And Khan isn't just a generic POC terrorist, but one of the most charismatic villains in movie history, written by Orci to be someone we're supposed to feel empathy for. It speaks to his lack of imagination on that front that he doesn't have faith in the audience to feel empathy for a non-white villain. At least with Montalban, he wasn't Indian, but he also wasn't a traditional Caucasian.
It was a missed opportunity for a franchise that used to pride itself on its diversity. It was a missed opportunity to improve upon the representation that was there originally.
Check out this talk on representation and why it matters so much and imagine even a fraction of the success Cumberbatch has had in the past few years being available to an Indian actor who would have played one of the most compelling characters in one of the largest worldwide franchises.
I agree completely. Star Trek is now in danger of only using people of colour as set dressing.
Having held the torch so high during the civil rights movement, Star Trek is now in danger of being left behind by more recent film franchises.
I had never seen any of the Fast & Furious films, until yesterday.
I bought a copy of FF6 at the post Christmas sales.
I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Halfway through it, I thought to myself, why can't Star Trek be as just much fun as an ensemble cast film where the family pulls together for each other with an upbeat theme?
It had nothing to do with that. For better or worse, Paramount didn't want the image of a Western Asian man crashing an aerial vehicle into a major US city, spoiling one of its films.
Not even a little.
Another one of those Star Trek myths. The past 50 years of Star Trek has been made up by mostly white men.
And that's different how?
More like held the torch at waist-level. And, in several areas, Star Trek has been behind the times since TNG.
How is that any different from the last guy?
Cumberbatch is a better and more interesting actor.
Touché.
For those who are still fretting over Cumberbatch's pasty white complexion ...
Imagine that Marcus miscalculated and woke up the wrong guy (or, in this timeline MontaKhan didn't survive the Big Sleep). Harrison realized the error and assumed the mantle of "Khan" to strike fear in the hearts of his new enemies.
Try it. It works for me.
Imagine that Marcus miscalculated and woke up the wrong guy (or, in this timeline MontaKhan didn't survive the Big Sleep). Harrison realized the error and assumed the mantle of "Khan" to strike fear in the hearts of his new enemies.
Try it. It works for me.
In 1966, Star Trek broke the race barrier by having a multi-ethnic cast, mostly in minor roles or just by being on film in the background.
DS9 and Voyagers broke the race and sex barriers in their own way.
In 2016, the 3rd movie must ensure everyone in the principal cast of 7 has more meaningful roles.
It's no longer enough to just 'show' you have an integrated crew.
I'm sure if you joined Starfleet, as one of the best of the best of the best, you didn't sign on just to say hailing frequencies open.
If a franchise such as the often maligned FF can get the mix right, why can't Star Trek?
I am sure that's one of the reasons Justin Lin was signed as director.
DS9 and Voyagers broke the race and sex barriers in their own way.
In 2016, the 3rd movie must ensure everyone in the principal cast of 7 has more meaningful roles.
It's no longer enough to just 'show' you have an integrated crew.
I'm sure if you joined Starfleet, as one of the best of the best of the best, you didn't sign on just to say hailing frequencies open.
If a franchise such as the often maligned FF can get the mix right, why can't Star Trek?
I am sure that's one of the reasons Justin Lin was signed as director.
Nope.
I know this is the popular myth, but it didn't break any barriers. Plus, Roddenberry himself had an exclusively white cast in "The Cage" and was told to mix it up by NBC.
How? Women and black men had been portrayed in leadership roles before those shows came along. So what barriers were they breaking exactly?
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I understand, and at the same time I'm still fine with the choice, but that's because I love Benedict Cumberbatch, and seeing him as a scene chewing villain was just too good to pass up. That said, there does need to be more representation in Hollywood. I'm not saying do it just to do it (though it could be cool if you did), but if there's a part traditionally played by, say, a black guy, and you pick a white guy without intending to shake things up, then I think you're going about things the wrong way.
I mean, let's look at Idris Elba. I'm not kidding. Let's look:
rowr.
*ahem* Anyway, he played Heimdall in Thor, and he did a great job. I saw him in that role, and I couldn't imagine anyone else playing that part so well. Then I was told that Heimdall was a white god, supposedly the whitest of the white gods, and I started laughing, because Idris Elba was so good playing as the white god that I wanted to see it again and again. To me, there are so many great opportunities being missed by excluding other people of color (I think we're all people of color, but the colors other than whitish/cream are getting the shaft). Orci did mention he didn't want to risk it, but I say take risks! It could be worth it!
I mean, let's look at Idris Elba. I'm not kidding. Let's look:
rowr.
*ahem* Anyway, he played Heimdall in Thor, and he did a great job. I saw him in that role, and I couldn't imagine anyone else playing that part so well. Then I was told that Heimdall was a white god, supposedly the whitest of the white gods, and I started laughing, because Idris Elba was so good playing as the white god that I wanted to see it again and again. To me, there are so many great opportunities being missed by excluding other people of color (I think we're all people of color, but the colors other than whitish/cream are getting the shaft). Orci did mention he didn't want to risk it, but I say take risks! It could be worth it!
Or he had cosmetic surgery so he could move about London without Marcus noticing.For those who are still fretting over Cumberbatch's pasty white complexion ...
Imagine that Marcus miscalculated and woke up the wrong guy (or, in this timeline MontaKhan didn't survive the Big Sleep). Harrison realized the error and assumed the mantle of "Khan" to strike fear in the hearts of his new enemies.
Try it. It works for me.
Which is why Saldana became an integral member of the bridge crew, with "moments of glory" of her own, and not just the ship's operator.
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That whole scene with the Klingons was so hot-er-badass. So badass.
I think it's the usual fan thing of comparing Trek only to previous Trek, ignoring other shows and movies. It's one reason that fans exaggerate the virtues of DS9 as drama, too.