Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Ar-Pharazon, May 20, 2020.
Not all movies. But certainly the team up movies.
Basically, The Avengers came along in 2012, made more money than God, and broke everyone's brain. Ever since then, essentially every studio has been forcing that "shared universe followed by a team-up movie" paradigm onto its franchises, whether it works or not, because everyone is chasing that billion-dollar dragon. Even Simon Pegg said that he and Doug Jung were under intense pressure from Paramount for Star Trek Beyond to be a huge moneymaker and accessible to everyone, because, again, everyone wants their own Avengers.
WB / DC saw The Avengers and thought that the way to go was "team-up movie now," which is why they went straight from Man of Steel to making Beavis. Don't get me wrong, I generally really like Beavis, but WB absolutely put the cart before the horse in that respect, and Snyder got an unfair amount of the blame when that movie didn't light the world on fire with the Avengers-level bucks that WB expected.
Edit: The issue, and this is what WB never realized, is that you don't need to have a half-dozen origin story movies in order to have a team-up movie, and you don't need to follow the Marvel assembly line formula. You don't need to see Magnificent Origins: The Crimes of Calvera in order to understand what's going on in The Magnificent Seven, for heaven's sake .
But WB took all the wrong lessons from watching what Marvel did. Don't get me wrong; I'm thankful for what we've gotten out of the DCEU, and I like most of its output a hell of a lot more than what we've gotten from Marvel Studios over the years. But WB's blunders are myriad, and even as far back as when Beavis was announced at Comic-Con, I was thinking, "Wait, shit, aren't you maybe rushing into this a little too quickly?"
WB should start a Kickstarter. See how much money that could be raised.
I would be happy if it was done by “the old ways”. By that I mean a graphic novel. I think a Batfleck miniseries on Max about Deathstroke could work.
That's pretty much the problem. People are trying to pull an Avengers level achievement while ignoring pretty much the steps and planning involved. And the whole shared universe aspect is less a dragon now and more a multi-headed hydra in which everyone thinks they have conquered it with their own spin only to create a weird animal that doesn't resemble the Avengers achievement.
I'll make some calls...
That's pretty much it but on top of that Marvel also set the benchmark on how superhero movies should be like, i.e. 1/3 each of drama, big action and humor ( and maybe throw in a romance subplot in it if applicable). DC chose the more somber tone which suits Batman but was a bit too much for Superman, that irked some fans.
Suicide Squad was a bit lighter in tone or rather had more humor in it but failed with fans and critics for other reasons, i.e. pulling the team together out of nowhere and basically only concentrating on the big name actors which was counterproductive to the team aspect.
It's a bit sad thinking what could have been after seeing Snyder's cut but the WB ship has veered so much off course now that it's near impossible to go back and continue with the Snyderverse. While i believe Endgame to be the crowning achievement of a 22 movie run dramatically speaking i would be more interested in seeing that dystopian Knightmare sequel before the good guys inevitably win and reset everything ( or most of it).
That being said i still hate the 4:3 aspect ratio, artistic intent my ass
New evidences that EDIT Whedon is the Antichrist
Seems Like Things Were Just Delightful Behind the Scenes of Zack Snyder's Justice League
Ant-man was not introduced because he was going to play a bigger role. His movie was in development before Iron Man 1 even came out, let alone before marvel was truly committed to the post-Avengers grand plan. Ant-man exists in the MCU because a popular director approached Marvel Studios and said he wanted to do an Ant-man movie and they were new and unknown and thrilled to work with someone so popular to help build up their image.
Then that director delayed his own project a million times and Marvel grew more confident in their own ideas and insisted on fitting the movie into them which eventually created so much conflict that he quit and they replaced him with Peyton Reed. Everything that was actually done with the character after his first film (and a good chunk of that first film, too) was created long after they were already committed to doing him in some form (because canceling the movie would've been a huge waste of money).
And really, the central core of why Marvel uses smaller characters so often has nothing to do with whatever grand plan they're currently working towards. The plan itself is designed to fit the characters they want, not the other way around. The characters are there because the MCU's entire mission statement is to create a fully realized comic book universe in live action. That means crossovers but it also means a broad range of characters, not just a small group of main heroes and none of the secondary heroes matter. And most significantly it means the world has to feel large and diverse. Dr. Strange is there to expand the MCU by introducing us to all the magical stuff that happens, just like Thor introduced us to the gods of Asgard and Captain Marvel introduced us to this grandiose interstellar setting of the Kree and their anti-Skrull crusade, Captain America introduced us to the arch-villainy of Hydra, Ant-man introduced us to the Quantum Realm, etc, etc.
To compare to DC, WB doesn't seem to want the same kind of vast on screen universe so it doesn't necessarily need to use as many smaller characters. But there's also no good reason why it fundamentally 'oughtn't' to use them. Any character can be a great success with the right treatment and doing small characters who maybe might bring in 250-500k instead of a billion in no way prevents them from also putting out a billion dollar Batman movie, too. Plus, sometimes the expectation of which character 'could' really make a ton of money is indisputably wrong. No logical assessment made ten years ago would've pegged a Joker solo movie as making a billion dollars. Nor would Guardians of the Galaxy or Suicide Squad have truly been expected to go above 700k.
Well in the UK at least, ZSJL is coming to Blu-Ray. https://store.hmv.com/store/film-tv/4k-ultra-hd-blu-ray/zack-snyder-s-justice-league-(hmv-exclusive)
However, according to Zavvi its not coming out until New Year's Eve which is silly to me as I'd release it in time for Christmas.
Think the 12/31/21 date may be just a placeholder. The rumor mill among physical media enthusiasts is that it will be late May. WB is probably holding off on announcing it till they think the initial HBO Max revenue has been maximized.
A US release is likely inevitable, but if not, WB Blu-ray releases are usually region-free worldwide. Assuming that’s the case here, one could simply import.
What evidence? All it says is, "Apparently things weren't cool on the reshoots (links to old reports), but here's a behind-the-scenes video made during the initial shoot".
I was facetious
Lately there are a lot articles about what great person to work with is Snyder and what a living hell was working with Whedon. It's evident what the WB PR departament is doing.
Gotcha. Text sometimes obfuscates.
Comparing Joss Whedon’s Treatment of the Amazons to Zack Snyder’s
Whedon seemingly made some utterly weird decisions on his version...but bringing it in under WB's two hour mandate meant a lot of stuff had to go.
Joss Whedon's shitty behaviour aside, he was brought in to take 4 hours of existing footage and make a 2 hour film while lightening the tone to that of the Marvel movies. I'm curious how much input he had on which arcs to keep and which to ditch. Some of his choices are bizarre... why cut Flash saving the league and the world and replace it with saving one family? Why give Superman those deepy cringy and stupid "I like truth... and I also like justice!" quips? What the fuck was that iphone opening?
He was an awful choice to retool a movie with such a different style to his. Snyder's version of the movie is funny, but the humour is entirely different. And cutting most of Cyborg's backstory of course has very unpleasent implications which Ray Fisher has detailed.
This has all left me very curious about that Suicide Squad cut that we'll never see. And I'm one of the seeming few who really liked the version we got!
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