You mean, besides the fact that the DCEU films range from mediocre (WW) to awful (JL)?
Spoilers Justice League - Grading and Discussion
- Thread starter dahj
- Start date
No, it's legit.
No, it's not, because "you don't know the characters" in most every film ever released.
Knowing the characters in a film or TV series before you watch said film or TV series has never been a qualitative requirement in the history of film and/or TV.
And those movies then have the job of making us get to know the character through characterization and arcs. Which Justice League failed to do. The MCU just decided to put a little extra effort in by thinking bigger.
Traditional ensemble movies balance their large casts in several ways, many of which typically aren't desirabled in a big crossover event movie like Avengers or JL. They designate certain characters as being plain background characters with only a small part to play, or they liberally use stereotypes and stock character concepts as a shallow form of characterization that can make a character memorable without having to invest time in them, or they focus on the heroes to the severe exclusion of the story or the other characters. All of these can work beautifully to tell an incredible story, depending on what kind of experience you're going for, but for the most part they are not typically great ideas for a movie that is intended as a basis for more to come.
The problem with treating these movies like traditional ensemble movies is that these characters are intended to move forward, to carry their own franchises individually and to reconvene as a group multiple times in the future. Ergo, they need more exposure and strong characterization in order to make that feasible. Could that have been achieved by putting the JL first and solo movies second? Maybe, sure. But it obviously wasn't, as things currently stand, and doing it the other way around would have been unquestionably easier to pull off.
The problem with treating these movies like traditional ensemble movies is that these characters are intended to move forward, to carry their own franchises individually and to reconvene as a group multiple times in the future. Ergo, they need more exposure and strong characterization in order to make that feasible. Could that have been achieved by putting the JL first and solo movies second? Maybe, sure. But it obviously wasn't, as things currently stand, and doing it the other way around would have been unquestionably easier to pull off.
Keep in mind that one of the members you're addressing lives only for the MCU and assumes the average movie goer is just as obsessed--enough to have some knowledge of a pack of largely faceless characters based on other media. That could only be assumed about true cultural icons such as Superman and Batman, so the audience would not only know the characters, but were familiar with them from other media, including comics, hence the reason expectations were met in the characterizations seen in Superman (1978), the Dark Knight trilogy and Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice.
Rewatched this last week on DVD, and thoroughly enjoyed it. Is it perfect? No way. Did it entertain me for two hours? Definitely. Ezra Miller was so much fun as The Flash, I really hope it's not the last we see of this incarnation of the character.
Can't wait for Aquaman in December. And Wonder Woman '84. And even Shazam.
Can't wait for Aquaman in December. And Wonder Woman '84. And even Shazam.
They just debuted the new Flash costume for the solo movie at this year's Comic-Con:
So that's why Iris' scenes were cut from JLThey just debuted the new Flash costume for the solo movie at this year's Comic-Con:
Assuming that Superman and Batman are the only cultural comic icons is sad, the MCU has thankfully rectified that...while DC has damaged Superman and Batman's images enough that it'll take a while for the big screen versions to recover.
They just debuted the new Flash costume for the solo movie at this year's Comic-Con:
You are evil.
^^^
They have to, considering they're doing a 'not in DCEU continuity' "Joker" stand alone film. If that film works, you can expect more of those types of DC comic book film projects from DC. Unlike Marvel Studios, which DID have some box office underperformers; but did let it alter their ultimate MCU plans, and it worked out well for them...Warner Brothers is all about the bottom line; and when their Justice League film (the most expensive in the DCEU series to make) brought in the lowest box office total of the DCEU - WB is scrambling on how to turn their DC comics properties around to be profitable.
'DCEU' is a damaged tagline (and even in what should be 'built in' interest, many people (including in my circle of friends) - "Oh it's a DCEU film eh? I'll wait for it to show on HBO..."
For my part, I thought "Man of Steel" was okay (and on par with MCU films like "Iron Man 2" and "The Incredible Hulk"); thought BvS was disappointing (Lex Luthor came across more like a version of 'The Joker' and I disliked that; plus with the actions Superman took/the way he was perceived in that world, the funeral and world reaction to his death made no sense. It was like Snyder gave his version of Superman the funeral the DC comics version of Supes would get); Suicide Squad was just plan crap (although Margo Robbie worked for me as Harley Quinn and Wonder Woman in BvS was great). Wonder Woman was probably the DCEU's best film overall, but it had some issues that didn't put it up there for me alongside some of the MCU's best like say "Captain America: Winter Soldier".
Again, I liked Justice League overall (for me the Cyborg character was well done); but "Steppenwolf" just came across as you standard mustache twirling villain and was a disappointment when for me everything in BvS screamed "Darksied is coming..."
^^^
And yes, mustache twirling Villians can work and be fine for smaller stand alone stories, but (IMO) not for you big/blockbuster "Let's get the full team together..." 'epic' style film.
Hell, if they had Darkseid step through at the end of JL, that would have caught my interest and made me want to see a JL II; but WB being the not really wanting to take a chance/commit to something major gave us the "Oh look it's the 'Legion of Doom'..." which was honestly a big 'meh' for me. (YMMV).
So, yeah, at this point WB wants to try and get a version of their DC comics characters that nets them box office like the three MCU Avengers films; and they're unwilling to take the long term risk of trying to publicly reinvigorate the DCEU's image, so they now have a new Worlds of DC movie brand (Which probably won't sway the built in audience, but may grab back general audiences.)
Last edited:
WB didn't plan it out properly and rushed everything with either too little or too much oversight at every step. I love MoS, I like BvS and WW but have mixed feelings for JL and find SS to be the worst of any DC/MCU movie. I think WB will abandon the joint universe for the most part and focus on single movies from here on.
What a waste because it could of been amazing.
What a waste because it could of been amazing.
Nope
I admire the DC films more than the Marvel ones, even though the latter is more consistently decent in quality. Of course, what I admire is (perhaps "was" is going to be more appropriate going forward?) the willingness to deviate from the "safe course" of prior adaptations. Man of Steel is my favourite Superman movie (and top 3 of all superhero movies on my list), but the first Christopher Reeve film is a strong second (and in the top 10 of all the films on my list). So it's not that I don't appreciate a "classic take" on a character. It's that I enjoy efforts at shaking up the status quo, even if they don't fire on all cylinders.
I was looking forward to Snyder's Justice League, as flawed as it may well have been because I was enjoying exploring these characters from his non-"classic take" angle. I was still entertained by what we got but was a bit disappointed at how it leaned towards "safe" (I had much the same reaction the Star Trek Beyond). What I'd really like to see someday is a period piece with Superman set in 1938 (same for Batman in the late 30s and James Bond in the 50s). I won't be holding my breath, though.
I was looking forward to Snyder's Justice League, as flawed as it may well have been because I was enjoying exploring these characters from his non-"classic take" angle. I was still entertained by what we got but was a bit disappointed at how it leaned towards "safe" (I had much the same reaction the Star Trek Beyond). What I'd really like to see someday is a period piece with Superman set in 1938 (same for Batman in the late 30s and James Bond in the 50s). I won't be holding my breath, though.
Finally got around to watching this and really enjoyed it. Scored it as a very solid B+. Very well cast and acted - I liked all the main heroes, even Flash and Cyborg who I really had little knowledge/background of before. The supervillain was a little disappointing and one-dimensional, but no more than most villains in these kind of films.
I hope we see more of all these incarnations of the characters.
I hope we see more of all these incarnations of the characters.
OK, the last thing I want to do launch another MCU vs. WoDC debate, but this is friggin' hilarious... 
OK, the last thing I want to do launch another MCU vs. WoDC debate, but this is friggin' hilarious...
They're just happy to be watching a better movie.
Similar threads
- Poll
- Poll
