Just out of curiosity: What was right with TATV?

[Rett Mikhal]

The title is pretty inspired. I always thought it had one of the best episode titles.

Course that's all it had... but it looks good in a foot note next to "the last episode."

 

[Gaith]

As I said in the other thread:

- I dig the framing device.
- The death of a senior staff member, not otherwise seen in the series
- The death of a crew member period, not seen in the first two seasons
- Phlox's super-wide smile returns!
- Not showing Archer's speech: it's more dramatically effective to imagine what he said. Anyone really want to hear "The Gazelle, Part 2"? The big hall was a great design. Also, the above-mentioned scene pre-speech scene.
- Polly should have adopted a Starfleet uniform when she formally joined the crew, but I gotta admit that her red jumpsuit was pretty rockin'.
- The name tags on the uniforms were pretty cool.
- Unlike many early ENT eps, it ain't boring. Taken on its own merits, without any consideration of the rest of Trek, it's far from the worst of the lot.

No one's engaging with that last bit, 'cause the haters know it's true!

 

[theenglish]

As I said in the other thread:

- I dig the framing device.
- The death of a senior staff member, not otherwise seen in the series
- The death of a crew member period, not seen in the first two seasons
- Phlox's super-wide smile returns!
- Not showing Archer's speech: it's more dramatically effective to imagine what he said. Anyone really want to hear "The Gazelle, Part 2"? The big hall was a great design. Also, the above-mentioned scene pre-speech scene.
- Polly should have adopted a Starfleet uniform when she formally joined the crew, but I gotta admit that her red jumpsuit was pretty rockin'.
- The name tags on the uniforms were pretty cool.
- Unlike many early ENT eps, it ain't boring. Taken on its own merits, without any consideration of the rest of Trek, it's far from the worst of the lot.

No one's engaging with that last bit, 'cause the haters know it's true!

I'll bite. Enterprise was killed by the first few episodes of season one and two. Both seasons, with the exception of some clunkers, improved toward the end and the season finales were great.

If the October and November episodes in 2001 and 2002 were of the quality of TATV then we might not have had this episode as the series finale.

 

[number6]

I actually liked the whole "historical perspective" tie-in with TNG. It really doesn't bother me that Riker activated a holodeck program to work out his issues within The Pegasus. I don't think it was out of character for Trip to throw himself on a grenade for his friend, though I would have loved to see some resolution to that wink Trip gives Archer before he dies. Was this part of some unresolved potential plot??

I liked the montage at the end.

I didn't hate TATV, but I was disappointed that the finale for a franchise was so lackluster.

 

[F. King Daniel]

^They left it open a little to "un-kill" Trip had Enterprise somehow managed a fifth season. The novels turned it into a stupid "He faked his own death to become a spy on Romulus" story.

 

[JiNX-01]

^They left it open a little to "un-kill" Trip had Enterprise somehow managed a fifth season. The novels turned it into a stupid "He faked his own death to become a spy on Romulus" story.

Actually, since the ENT events in TATV are six years after Terra Prime, season 5 wouldn't have needed to "unkill Trip" since season 5 events would pre-date that.

 

[I am Surak]

Actually, since the ENT events in TATV are six years after Terra Prime, season 5 wouldn't have needed to "unkill Trip" since season 5 events would pre-date that.

Nice application of logical thinking - Surak approves!

 

[JiNX-01]

Actually, since the ENT events in TATV are six years after Terra Prime, season 5 wouldn't have needed to "unkill Trip" since season 5 events would pre-date that.

Nice application of logical thinking - Surak approves!

Spock is an excellent teacher.

 

[RandyS]

The concept itself wasn't bad, but the story they applied to it was.

Also, for once the holodeck didn't malfunction

Actually, given what we saw, a case could be made that it did.

 

[Avon]

trip dying. i always thought he was too stupid to live and the episode kind of confirmed it.

 

[I am Surak]

trip dying. i always thought he was too stupid to live and the episode kind of confirmed it.

I'm gonna sit back and see this one play out........

 

[Gaith]

'll bite. Enterprise was killed by the first few episodes of season one and two. Both seasons, with the exception of some clunkers, improved toward the end and the season finales were great.

If the October and November episodes in 2001 and 2002 were of the quality of TATV then we might not have had this episode as the series finale.

Now we're getting somewhere.

Imagine that an evil Q told you he was going to wipe out every last trace of Star Trek except for one Enterprise episode: anyone who picks Terra Nova, Oasis, Detained, Vanishing Point or Carpenter Street (at a minimum) over TATV... well, that'd be crazy talk.

 

[bluedana]

'll bite. Enterprise was killed by the first few episodes of season one and two. Both seasons, with the exception of some clunkers, improved toward the end and the season finales were great.

If the October and November episodes in 2001 and 2002 were of the quality of TATV then we might not have had this episode as the series finale.

Now we're getting somewhere.

Imagine that an evil Q told you he was going to wipe out every last trace of Star Trek except for one Enterprise episode: anyone who picks Terra Nova, Oasis, Detained, Vanishing Point or Carpenter Street (at a minimum) over TATV... well, that'd be crazy talk.

Well, color me crazy, then, because I like Detained, Vanishing Point, and Carpenter Street and would rewatch any of those before putting in TATV.

 

[Michael]

Imagine that an evil Q told you he was going to wipe out every last trace of Star Trek except for one Enterprise episode: anyone who picks Terra Nova, Oasis, Detained, Vanishing Point or Carpenter Street (at a minimum) over TATV... well, that'd be crazy talk.

Well, color me crazy, then, because I like Detained, Vanishing Point, and Carpenter Street and would rewatch any of those before putting in TATV.

That's also true for me. I must be crazy then, too.

 

[SPCTRE]

I actually liked the whole "historical perspective" tie-in with TNG. It really doesn't bother me that Riker activated a holodeck program to work out his issues within The Pegasus.

[...]

I didn't hate TATV, but I was disappointed that the finale for a franchise was so lackluster.

That sums up my feelings pretty well.

I didn't like Trip's death scene, it didn't feel heroic, it didn't feel necessary, it didn't even manage to make a little sad. It just managed to make me scratch my head in disbelief.

Everything else about the episode was actually pretty much okay.

 

[RandyS]

trip dying. i always thought he was too stupid to live and the episode kind of confirmed it.

Yeah, I never liked Trip either. He was always too much of arrogant blowhard for my taste. But, he did kid of fit in with Archer's crew. There's no way in hell Picard or Sisko would have tolerated him for more than a second.

 

[Gil T.Azell]

The cook. - Taking a character you never saw in the series and making him part of the story in the future.

I thought is was amazing that Chef looked so much like Riker.

Maybe to the crew he looked like Issac Hayes through the four year run?
He only looked like the future Cmdr Riker to us,or he was Riker's Great great grandfather.

 

[KeepOnTrekking]

I liked the way that they tried to fast forward to the big speech of Archer's that helped cement the allies in place to form the Federation. Jonathan was trying to take his dad's Warp 5 dreams and build on them with his own. Trip being one of Jonathan's best, if not the best, friend was willing to give his life so Jonathan would be in a better position to survive in order to make that dream come to true. A very noble and loving sacrifice on Trip's part I would say. It felt abrupt and unwarranted in the episode but the "novelization" The Good That Men Do brought a lot of the inner emotions out to be seen. The beauty of the tv episode being show as a holodeck recreation (as opposed to it actually happening or being replayed through the Guardian of Forver or something) allowed the novel the wiggle room to reinterpret the events in a more satisfying way (for me, at least).

 

[Silvercrest]

The cook. - Taking a character you never saw in the series and making him part of the story in the future.

I thought is was amazing that Chef looked so much like Riker.

Maybe to the crew he looked like Issac Hayes through the four year run?
He only looked like the future Cmdr Riker to us,or he was Riker's Great great grandfather.

I guess if you obsessively hate Enterprise, you can rationalize the entire series as Riker's holodeck fantasy, a la Tom Paris' Captain Proton.

I can do better than that.

1) All bad ENT episodes are Riker's holodeck fantasies. There was no "Chef" on the real NX-01.

2) All bad TNG episodes are Barclay's holodeck fantasies.

3) All bad VOY episodes are also Barclay's holodeck fantasies.

4) All bad TOS episodes are Bashir and O'Brien's holosuite fantasies.

5) All bad DS9 episodes are Gul Dukat's holosuite fantasies.

Any inconsistencies in continuity, technology, character development, etc. can be explained this way as well.

See how simple it is?

 

[RegFan]

I didn't like Trip's death scene, it didn't feel heroic, it didn't feel necessary, it didn't even manage to make a little sad. It just managed to make me scratch my head in disbelief.

That's exactly how I feel about that scene, but I still really like the idea of one of the regular characters dying in the finale.