I think Bashir grew on many people as the series went along. The creators realized they had made him annoying and really toned the character down. It helped a lot. Jadzia, on the other hand, seems to be hated by most throughout the run of the show.
Just finished it [SPOILERS]
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I think Bashir grew on many people as the series went along. The creators realized they had made him annoying and really toned the character down. It helped a lot. Jadzia, on the other hand, seems to be hated by most throughout the run of the show.
My only problem with the way the series ended was having just about all the main characters leaving for some super-important new role- Federation Ambassador to the Klingon Empire, Grand Nagus of the Ferengi, Chancellor to the Klingon Empire, Savior to the Founders, etc... It was stretches things a bit when the cast are giving pivotal roles in major events, like Sisko being in charge of the Alpha Quadrant Assault.
I do like how they did tie up all the plot threads, but I wish they did not feel obligated to give everyone a special send off to greater things. "All Good Things" got it right- you saw the command crew together, having finished a big adventure, the ship moving off to new missions which we just never saw. I like the idea of watching events unfold and having the feeling things will continue afterwards as before, we are just not around to see them.
I do like how they did tie up all the plot threads, but I wish they did not feel obligated to give everyone a special send off to greater things. "All Good Things" got it right- you saw the command crew together, having finished a big adventure, the ship moving off to new missions which we just never saw. I like the idea of watching events unfold and having the feeling things will continue afterwards as before, we are just not around to see them.
I did think making Rom the Grand Nagus was ridiculous. I like that Ferenginar was headed down the path of social change, but it wasn't believable how fast it completely transformed.
Martok being chancellor was believable, Odo going back to the link was really the only satisfying way they could have ended it. I'm glad they didn't do any kind of "We are a FAMILY, we must all stick together, damn our careers" thing and let the characters move on with their lives even if it meant breaking up the family. I hate it every time a sitcom has a story where somebody has a huge career opportunity that they dismiss just because it would be just too sad to move out of the house.
I started to like Bashir after the first season in a half, but they completely ruined him with the genetics twist.
Martok being chancellor was believable, Odo going back to the link was really the only satisfying way they could have ended it. I'm glad they didn't do any kind of "We are a FAMILY, we must all stick together, damn our careers" thing and let the characters move on with their lives even if it meant breaking up the family. I hate it every time a sitcom has a story where somebody has a huge career opportunity that they dismiss just because it would be just too sad to move out of the house.
I started to like Bashir after the first season in a half, but they completely ruined him with the genetics twist.
From what I recall, they course-corrected his character rather quickly. And I'm one of the few who liked the genetics twist, but I'm not diving into that debate again anytime soon!
Well, the difference there is they were moving directly onto the big screen for more adventures. If that wasn't going to happen, I bet you anything the series would have had a much different ending. Having said that, AGT is awesome. It's my second favorite series finale in Trek.
Agree, but then the Ferengi are mostly ridiculous anyway. DS9 needed a dose of ridiculousness every now and then, so I'm not complaining.
Definitely. And who's to say Odo stayed in the link? And what happened while he was there? It was a beautiful ending, but it left more questions than answers. I liked that.
Agreed. And DS9 wasn't really that kind of show. THAT would not have been a believable ending.
I found almost all of those believable given how they positioned the characters throughout the series. The setup, on the other hand, may stretch credulity a bit. Seems like there were a lot of people that head the ear of their head of state on that station.
But, yeah, the only one that seemed truly ridiculous was Rom as grand nagus. They set everything else up well.
From what I recall, they course-corrected his character rather quickly. And I'm one of the few who liked the genetics twist, but I'm not diving into that debate again anytime soon!
Wow...that's another twist that I really liked! Didn't realize I was in the minority with that opinion.
And I'm one of the few who liked the genetics twist, but I'm not diving into that debate again anytime soon!
Wow...that's another twist that I really liked! Didn't realize I was in the minority with that opinion.
DS9 had the best ending of any of the series for sure. Having everyone moving on in life felt very genuine, I thought the saddest part was that Odo and Kira didn't end up together but I do think they both had good endings.
The one thing that always felt off to me was what happened on the Ferengi homeworld, I always felt that Ishka was pushing for Ferengis' women's rights , specifically she felt females should have the same rights to Be Ferengi as males. To paraphrase Rom, She wanted to become the exploiter, not end the exploitation.
The focus always seemed to be that given the chance, female Ferengi could be just as good at business as males.
Then the final episode rolls around and somehow she has convinced Zek to reform Ferenginar into a generic federation planet. I loved the flavour of Ferenginar as a contrast to the warm and fuzzy federation, after the last episode it felt like the first logical step for Rom was to apply for federation membership.
That all being said, I did think Quarks finish was wonderfully fitting , he's the rock that doesn't change
The one thing that always felt off to me was what happened on the Ferengi homeworld, I always felt that Ishka was pushing for Ferengis' women's rights , specifically she felt females should have the same rights to Be Ferengi as males. To paraphrase Rom, She wanted to become the exploiter, not end the exploitation.
The focus always seemed to be that given the chance, female Ferengi could be just as good at business as males.
Then the final episode rolls around and somehow she has convinced Zek to reform Ferenginar into a generic federation planet. I loved the flavour of Ferenginar as a contrast to the warm and fuzzy federation, after the last episode it felt like the first logical step for Rom was to apply for federation membership.
That all being said, I did think Quarks finish was wonderfully fitting , he's the rock that doesn't change
Definitely. And who's to say Odo stayed in the link? And what happened while he was there? It was a beautiful ending, but it left more questions than answers. I liked that.
Odo's story landed in the perfect spot. He had become the alternate emissary, the one who would represent Federation/Bajoran values to the founders so they could overcome their xenophobia. It would seem appropriate that they would eventually leave the homeworld to make more contacts with non-shapeshifters.
Same, however the faster theme matched the way the pace of the series picked up at that point.
Agree, but then the Ferengi are mostly ridiculous anyway. DS9 needed a dose of ridiculousness every now and then, so I'm not complaining.
Yea I thought this too when it popped up, but they managed to make it work and pull it off which made me respect it even more.
Kira and Jake standing looking out in the final shot made me think would they possibly end up getting together, thinking back to Jakes previous encounter with an older woman. I also seem to remember there being a very small hint of chemistry between them at one point, cant remember which episode though.
Definitely. And who's to say Odo stayed in the link? And what happened while he was there? It was a beautiful ending, but it left more questions than answers. I liked that.
Odo's story landed in the perfect spot. He had become the alternate emissary, the one who would represent Federation/Bajoran values to the founders so they could overcome their xenophobia. It would seem appropriate that they would eventually leave the homeworld to make more contacts with non-shapeshifters.
It also provided some good closure to his story with Kira. To me, she was the equivalent to a HS GF that you move on form after a year or two of college. They were never "meant to be"...rather she was there to guide Odo on his personal journey. Concluding with him going back to his people was perfect.
I kind of agree with both points. I just don't think the beat/pulse they added fit well with the orchestration. Something about it felt off. Not to mention, it gave the theme a 90s (dated) sound IMO. I did like the big, dark percussion they added in the beginning of the intro though.
Wow, that never once crossed my mind. It was a scene of loss and hope for me. Bittersweet. Which summed up the series nicely I think in one shot. Both characters had loved ones who were now out of their lives. One was now presumably within the wormhole, the other was way on the other side of the wormhole. Neither tangibly within reach. Yet both still existed. So while we mourn their losses, we still hold out hope that both Ben and Odo will return someday. Although it's equally possible neither will ever be seen again by Jake and Kira. So there are these mixed feelings there which is just the perfect way to end the series.
I have watched the whole of DS9 five or six times now and I have never been able to watch the entire farewell scene in the holosuite where Vic Fontaine is singing. The song, coupled with knowing that these people will never (as far as we know) be all together again, always makes me sad and I tear up like a big, fat nerdy baby.
I figure as long as I never watch that bit all the way through, then the entirety of Deep Space 9 is taking place in one alternate universe or another and I can always go back and visit.
If I hear the whole song, I will get herpes, go bald and die.
Strange, I know, but I don't make the rules.
I figure as long as I never watch that bit all the way through, then the entirety of Deep Space 9 is taking place in one alternate universe or another and I can always go back and visit.
If I hear the whole song, I will get herpes, go bald and die.
Strange, I know, but I don't make the rules.
Definitely. And who's to say Odo stayed in the link? And what happened while he was there? It was a beautiful ending, but it left more questions than answers. I liked that.
Odo's story landed in the perfect spot. He had become the alternate emissary, the one who would represent Federation/Bajoran values to the founders so they could overcome their xenophobia. It would seem appropriate that they would eventually leave the homeworld to make more contacts with non-shapeshifters.
It also provided some good closure to his story with Kira. To me, she was the equivalent to a HS GF that you move on form after a year or two of college. They were never "meant to be"...rather she was there to guide Odo on his personal journey. Concluding with him going back to his people was perfect.
That's a good point. Their was a certain "apprenticeship" aspect to their relationship, maybe a little Tea & Sympathy, Bull Durham or Student Prince. They were meant to grow as people and then move on.
As much as I would have wished the show and the characters to go on, I like that the finale had such, well, finality. The show is over; it's time to celebrate their relationship one last time, then move on. WYLB is more about the characters than any of the other Trek finales.
I enjoyed the series tremendously, close to being my all-time favorite, just trailing TOS.
I didn't watch much at all during its first-run, not sure if the whole "grittier day-to-day life" approach would appeal to me because part of my attraction to sci-fi is indeed spaceships zooming around. But in the end, it was that uncharacteristic, for ST anyway, stuck-on-a-space-station storyline that hooked me. As much as I loved all the other series, it seemed like the ship-based ones always kept the crew in their "on-duty" persona 24/7 (if there still are 24 hours a day and seven days a week in the 24th Century), but on DS9 there was a lot of time with them not always wearing their Starfleet face.
And while probably not many board-members' favorite part, the Dominion War arc really cemented it for me. I want my heroes to be heroic, but not the "mow down 500 bad guys with an uzi using only one magazine" heroic, but the "I gotta do what I gotta go, even if I don't like it" heroes. Even if our heroes had to compromise their principles for the war efforts, they were brave enough to do it ... and recognize what they had done and that it was due to circumstances, not a shift in character. I think the show did a great job portraying the toll the war took on the characters over time. Not to mention, it led to some of the most exciting and epically portrayed (and SFX astounding for a TV show at the time) space battles.
Of course, running seven seasons, entailing long story arcs and the not always on duty aspect allowed a familiarity with the characters you rarely find.
Other than Nimoy as Spock, I believe Brooks as Sisko has to be the most inspired casting in the entire franchise ... that dude could be firm but loving father one minute, reluctant emissary or diplomat the next, then a don't f#ck with me badass after that. That's a pretty big range that not all actors can reach.
I didn't watch much at all during its first-run, not sure if the whole "grittier day-to-day life" approach would appeal to me because part of my attraction to sci-fi is indeed spaceships zooming around. But in the end, it was that uncharacteristic, for ST anyway, stuck-on-a-space-station storyline that hooked me. As much as I loved all the other series, it seemed like the ship-based ones always kept the crew in their "on-duty" persona 24/7 (if there still are 24 hours a day and seven days a week in the 24th Century), but on DS9 there was a lot of time with them not always wearing their Starfleet face.
And while probably not many board-members' favorite part, the Dominion War arc really cemented it for me. I want my heroes to be heroic, but not the "mow down 500 bad guys with an uzi using only one magazine" heroic, but the "I gotta do what I gotta go, even if I don't like it" heroes. Even if our heroes had to compromise their principles for the war efforts, they were brave enough to do it ... and recognize what they had done and that it was due to circumstances, not a shift in character. I think the show did a great job portraying the toll the war took on the characters over time. Not to mention, it led to some of the most exciting and epically portrayed (and SFX astounding for a TV show at the time) space battles.
Of course, running seven seasons, entailing long story arcs and the not always on duty aspect allowed a familiarity with the characters you rarely find.
Other than Nimoy as Spock, I believe Brooks as Sisko has to be the most inspired casting in the entire franchise ... that dude could be firm but loving father one minute, reluctant emissary or diplomat the next, then a don't f#ck with me badass after that. That's a pretty big range that not all actors can reach.
Yeah, I gotta agree with you. The only reason this would cross anyone's mind is b/c of Jake's actions in Fascination. But the less said about that the better.
The Kira/Sisko relationship is very interesting. We rarely see them interacting socially, yet it's clear they are very close. Some of that is probably that Kira feels she has to keep a respectful distance from a religious icon, but they still manage to have a certain level of intimacy. A well done relationship by the actors and producers that doesn't get enough praise, in my opinion.
The Kira/Jake relationship seemed more maternal than romantic. Like caring for your fallen war buddy's newborn child when you get home.
They could have had a scene where Odo decided, screw the collective, I just love Kira so much I need to be with her and ended on a touching reunion. It would have been sentimental and filled the audience with good feelings, but it would have devalued his entire arc, IMO. It would have ruined the theme of their relationship that Kira loved him enough to be willing to lose him to his true calling.
They could have had a scene where Odo decided, screw the collective, I just love Kira so much I need to be with her and ended on a touching reunion. It would have been sentimental and filled the audience with good feelings, but it would have devalued his entire arc, IMO. It would have ruined the theme of their relationship that Kira loved him enough to be willing to lose him to his true calling.
I felt the same way when I watched DS9 for the first time!
I did not want it to end.
Even though Voyager was my first Trek and my most beloved, I do think that DS9 was the most well-executed show out of them all. I love all of the intertwining storylines, the mystical nature of the Prophets, and the fact that so many species (Ferengi, Bajorans, Cardassians, Changelings, etc) were explored on a deeper level), evils that aren't on the scale of the Borg but that are just as delicious like Dukat and Kai Winn, and just...everything.
Also the fact that it was not set on a starship allowed it to be less rigid and have more flawed characters. Someone like Quark would have never been seen on the Enterprise. DS9 allowed for those types of characters to be main characters.
I'm on my 3rd rewatch of DS9 at the moment and I am loving it all over again.
I do wish that Terry Farrell didn't leave the show though. After 6 seasons, she only had one more to go.
Not a fan of Ezri and it was the only thing that made Season 7 fall slightly flat for me. But then again, all of the excitement of Season 7...I guess it's not as big of a deal. Still, I would have liked to see Jadzia til the end.
I did not want it to end.
Even though Voyager was my first Trek and my most beloved, I do think that DS9 was the most well-executed show out of them all. I love all of the intertwining storylines, the mystical nature of the Prophets, and the fact that so many species (Ferengi, Bajorans, Cardassians, Changelings, etc) were explored on a deeper level), evils that aren't on the scale of the Borg but that are just as delicious like Dukat and Kai Winn, and just...everything.
Also the fact that it was not set on a starship allowed it to be less rigid and have more flawed characters. Someone like Quark would have never been seen on the Enterprise. DS9 allowed for those types of characters to be main characters.
I'm on my 3rd rewatch of DS9 at the moment and I am loving it all over again.
I do wish that Terry Farrell didn't leave the show though. After 6 seasons, she only had one more to go.
Not a fan of Ezri and it was the only thing that made Season 7 fall slightly flat for me. But then again, all of the excitement of Season 7...I guess it's not as big of a deal. Still, I would have liked to see Jadzia til the end.
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