Just finished Before Dishonor...

[chris32482]

... and I totally don't understand why it catches so much flak. I liked it pretty well. I found it much more enjoyable than Resistance, though not quite as good as Q & A. I can see why certain aspects of it may warrant criticism, but nowhere near the amount that it receives. Maybe it's because I had read so many negative reviews of the book that I went into it expecting it to suck really bad, and it just didn't. I thought the book was exciting, fast paced, and rather epic in scope. Seeing Spock, Seven, and Picard all working together was cool.

Spoiler: before dishonor

Janeway's death, unfortunately, wasn't a big surprise because I had been spoiled on that one (a price you sometimes pay by visiting this site regularly). However, I liked how David handled it in the end.

The mutiny storyline really bothered me at first because I had come to like the characters of Kadohata, Leybenzon, and T'Lana and really felt that the new crew was finally starting to come together in KRAD's Q & A. However, wasn't tension among the crew something that was always missing in TNG? I'm looking forward to seeing what happens in GTTS with regard to the crew learning to trust each other again.

I had also read that some people were put off by David's tendency to use humor in what was overall a rather bleak and depressing book. This didn't bother me at all. David is pretty darned funny at times ("damn you, Picard, you tricky bastard!") and I am the kind of person that can find humor in even the direst of circumstances.

Of course, Before Dishonor did have it's share of "wtf" moments. Like the Borg cube absorbing Pluto. And Leybenzon shouting obscenities at Picard while Picard just stands there and takes it. But, few books are perfect and I thought that the positive aspects in the book far outweighed the negative.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Yeah I agree the book really wasn't as bad as everyone keeps saying.

 

[ialfan]

Agreed. It was an enjoyable read and I think Janeway died in a most ironic way that was fitting.

 

[Brendan Moody]

I'm going to forgo spoiler coding, since the book came out over a year ago and all.

However, wasn't tension among the crew something that was always missing in TNG?

Yes. The problem is that doing it badly is no improvement on not doing it at all. The new crew in Before Dishonor aren't characters so much as cheap tension generators. They have no depth, and what little characterization there is clashes badly with what previous books had established.

I had also read that some people were put off by David's tendency to use humor in what was overall a rather bleak and depressing book.

I think more people were put off because they thought David had a tendency to use humor that wasn't particularly funny.

 

[William Leisner]

_______________, unfortunately, wasn't a big surprise because I had been spoiled on that one (a price you sometimes pay by visiting this site regularly).

Let me just say, thank you, chris, for recognizing this. One of my internet pet peeves is people who think it's everyone's responsibility except their own to avoid being "spoiled."

 

[captcalhoun]

i thought BD was fuckin' fanTAS-tic

 

[Thrawn]

I still contend it's the best TNG-relaunch book before Destiny, as long as you look at it as a standalone story. Most of the problems arise because of inconsistent characterization with prior novels, or repetitiveness with prior & later novels, etc. On its own, though, I genuinely think all the characterizations work (except for possibly Worf), especially Picard who I think is hilarious and a bit darker, which is exactly how I imagined him after Data's death. They may not be the same characters we see before and after, and that's worthy of criticism, but on its own I really think the book is pretty fantastic.

 

[Defcon]

I still contend it's the best TNG-relaunch book before Destiny, as long as you look at it as a standalone story. Most of the problems arise because of inconsistent characterization with prior novels, or repetitiveness with prior & later novels, etc. On its own, though, I genuinely think all the characterizations work (except for possibly Worf), especially Picard who I think is hilarious and a bit darker, which is exactly how I imagined him after Data's death. They may not be the same characters we see before and after, and that's worthy of criticism, but on its own I really think the book is pretty fantastic.

QFT.

And IMHO in the end it all comes down to this: Margaret Clark made a mistake in hiring him, as someone who is used to do his own thing, to write a part of an ongoing storyline without making sure to coordinate at least the basics (characterizations etc.) between him and the other authors, especially KRAD, if she intends to bring out the books pretty much back-to-back.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Margaret Clark made a mistake in hiring him, as someone who is used to do his own thing...

Had MC hired someone else to write a long-awaited sequel to "Vendetta", there'd have been a vendetta announced!

 

[Turtletrekker]

No, I think the "mistake" (oversight?) as such was in not in hiring PAD, but perhaps only in his not having reading Q&A first.

I think a lot of the criticism of this book comes down to the fact that PAD has written so many top-rate Trek books that when he writes one that's not as good (and this one was far from his best), he's more likely to get called out on it.

That said, I don't think it's as bad as a lot of people think, either. Not great, but not painful either. Yes, the characterizations could have been better and the "mutiny" plot was just wierd, but it was still a good read.

 

[Defcon]

No, I think the "mistake" (oversight?) as such was in not in hiring PAD, but perhaps only in his not having reading Q&A first.

That's hard to do when they are written simultaneously, and again in my opinion in a case like this it's (at least partly) the editor's job to make sure both authors have as much information as possible about the other book written at the same time, since she is the one involved in both, especially when one of the authors isn't known for caring that much about what's going on around him (That isn't meant negative, since in my opinion Peter David's different take on some things is always a refreshing change from the tight continuity of the rest of the Novelverse).

 

[Steve Roby]

Had MC hired someone else to write a long-awaited sequel to "Vendetta", there'd have been a vendetta announced!

Say what now? I don't remember BD being promoted as a long-awaited sequel to Vendetta, I don't remember people expecting a sequel to Vendetta, and I don't get why a book at that point in the TNG relaunch would necessarily have to have anything to do with Vendetta. Or was that just the sound of a joke going whoosh over my head?

 

[Therin of Andor]

Say what now? I don't remember BD being promoted as a long-awaited sequel to Vendetta, I don't remember people expecting a sequel to Vendetta

"Before Dishonor" originally had a Latin(?) title that translated as "the Queen is dead", and IIRC from that moment we began to hear that PAD was going to be revisiting the Borg he knew from "Vendetta", long before "First Contact" told us about a Borg Queen. As the book's release date drew closer, we heard that "The Doomsday Machine" would be a part of the action, as it was in "Vendetta".

 

[Paris]

Before Dishonor always seems to get a bad wrap. When I read it, I hadn't been trolling the boards, so I was unaware that people hated it so much. I also had not read Q&A so I didn't think the characterization was that different from the last book I read before it, Resistance (which was already kind of off...). Looking back, I agree that it was rather weak compared to some, but I still enjoyed the read. I am after all a pretty big Voyager fan as well as a PAD fan.

 

[LightningStorm]

I disagree greatly with the idea that Before Dishonor is better as a standalone. I think it is far worse as a standalone than in the series. Now, had it been standalone it might have been easier to overlook it, but it definitely is not better IMO. As a standalone the events (to me) come across as even more cartoonish and unbelievable than it currently does. Had this been a story in the Myriad Universes however, then I might have even liked it because all expectations and rules go out the window.

 

[elaithin]

Just as a curiosity, why should there be expectations and rules for stories that aren't Myriad Universes tales?

 

[Semah]

Most of my thoughts have been echoed above. Between the mutiny, the character destruction, and the outright over the top nature of the plot, I could not take this seriously. It seemed far more like Peter David playing with his Star Trek Toys than a novel with the quality I have come to expect from him. The only things I think PAD nailed in this case, was the character of Seven, and the death of Janeway.

 

[LightningStorm]

Just as a curiosity, why should there be expectations and rules for stories that aren't Myriad Universes tales?

I knew someone would take that too literally. The expectations part, well, I have a certain amount of expectations when I read/watch/do anything. As for "rules" that was more added modifier to the sentence and not meant to literally impose rules upon a given story.

Basically BD didn't depict what I consider to be the Borg we are used to seeing, the Enterprise crew we are use to seeing, Picard, Worf, Janeway etc. Then of course there's the comical cartoonish nature of its depiction that I felt was out of place in the 'real' universe. Whereas in Myriad Universes I'd have no preconceived notions of what the characters or the Borg or even how silly the events should be.

 

[Marie1]

Spoiler: BD Question-with spoiler

Why would the Borg be interested in Pluto? Especially since its mostly ice... does it say why they bothered "eating" Pluto?

 

[elaithin]

Happy to oblige, then.

I think people forget sometimes that the beauty of fiction is that you CAN do anything. It doesn't always work, and people may not like it, but anything is possible.

I think David's Borg were consistent with what the Borg should be. My only problems remain the characterization of Kadohata - who was an 'E-D old-time', so a lot of her stuff doesn't make sense. She shouldn't be the outsider she's presented as, and that's a pretty big flub. Leybenzon and T'Lara, I don't mind the way David wrote them at all, and I think a lot of people exagerrate on this point.

As for the comical nature - well, the only thing I really felt was comical in the whole book was when the Borg ate Pluto, which, while good for a laugh.... probably should have been left out.