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Just finished Before Dishonor...

Right there is a prime example of the kinds of ad hominem attacks Christopher was describing. Instead of arguing that he disagreed with the creative decision to kill Janeway off, he instead decided to attribute malice and apathy, acts of gross unprofessionalism, to the authors and editors. And when confronted with this, he then refused to apologize.

And right below your post is another poster personally attacking another poster. How is that even acceptable?

Do you mean me? No, I didn't. I didn't attack anyone. I mocked, yeah, I'll cop to that, but that's not an attack. I even said

a post as illogical and overwrought as yours?

I did insult the post, but not the poster. I was very careful about that.

Seriously, kimc, what part of my post was an attack on another poster? I really want to know, 'cause attacking people isn't why I come here.

I was really surprised that the book range (who I guess I should personify as Margaret Clark, right?) would make such a, well, ballsy move.

Ironically, the same Margaret Clark has been the target of both praise and harsh criticism for resurrecting Trip Tucker to remain a major player in the ENT Relaunch!

Yeah, I've always found that to be a sad combination of funny and inexplicable.
 
Okay, now I'm genuinely puzzled. I've been around the board for a while and while I've seen fans get very passionate about Janeway as well as other characters the term "militant" seems a bit strong.

Meanwhile, over in the Voyager forum...

Hi all. Joined in response to the discussion in treklit, hence my screen name-the fan bit would not fit-so I guess I will be militantjaneway. Nice to meet all you Janeway and J/C fans.

Another noob. Bring out "the comfy chair"!

;)
 
And right below your (Sci's) post is another poster personally attacking another poster. How is that even acceptable?

You mean ClayinCA defending his right to use an avatar Brit finds offensive, or when he asks for clarification that our supposed techniques for shutting down pro-Janeway posters' comments will be "stopped"?

No, I mean stuff like this:

Do you mean bait?

In all seriousness, your arguments are a lot more likely to be listened to if they're written well and spelled correctly.

Come on! Who here has NEVER mistakenly mispelled a word without noticing in time to go back and correct?

** listens to sounds of crickets **

Right. Look, I personally think the avatar is tasteless but he has every right to use it unless the mods on this forum say otherwise. However, belittling a poster because you don't agree with them is a cowardly act.

Do you mean me? No, I didn't. I didn't attack anyone. I mocked, yeah, I'll cop to that, but that's not an attack.

You know you're right. You did make it a point to mock instead of attack although there are some who would say that mockery is a form of attack. I guess it all depends on how you look at it.
 
Okay, now I'm genuinely puzzled. I've been around the board for a while and while I've seen fans get very passionate about Janeway as well as other characters the term "militant" seems a bit strong.

Meanwhile, over in the Voyager forum...

Hi all. Joined in response to the discussion in treklit, hence my screen name-the fan bit would not fit-so I guess I will be militantjaneway. Nice to meet all you Janeway and J/C fans.

Another noob. Bring out "the comfy chair"!

;)

You don't like my comfy chair joke? It's a Python reference - it's not like I'm torturing newbies over there! ;)
 
No, I just found it ironic that you say in this forum that "militant" is a bit strong after you welcome to another forum someone who calls him- or herself militantjaneway. After all, nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.
 
Right there is a prime example of the kinds of ad hominem attacks Christopher was describing. Instead of arguing that he disagreed with the creative decision to kill Janeway off, he instead decided to attribute malice and apathy, acts of gross unprofessionalism, to the authors and editors. And when confronted with this, he then refused to apologize.

And right below your post is another poster personally attacking another poster. How is that even acceptable?

ClayinCA is responding to Brit's attempts to censor him because of his avatar, which is itself a form of personal attack. I have no sympathy for someone who tries to censor someone else and then gets insulted for it.
 
No, I just found it ironic that you say in this forum that "militant" is a bit strong after you welcome to another forum someone who calls him- or herself militantjaneway. After all, nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.

That's because their chief element is surprise. ;)

First off, I make it a point to welcome all new posters to the Voyager forum. I consider that one of my mod duties. Also, I recognized the user name for the joke it was intended to be. You may think it's funny or not funny but just like with avatars users have the right to choose their own unless the board Admins deem them inappropriate.
 
I agree -- I felt Janeway's characterization in BD was authentic and handled well.

So the correct characterization of Janeway is a bitter husk of a human being? That doesn't bode well...

Am I glad it wasn't a character that I personally liked? Well, yeah. Was I a little bit happy to see a character I didn't especially like in a TV show I gave up watching bite the dust? I mean...I guess so, but any dislike I had for Janeway wasn't taking up a large enough portion of my life to really make that much of an impression on me, beyond what I said above, about what her death betokens for the book range.

Dude, "a little bit happy"?

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman
 
No, I mean stuff like this:

Do you mean bait?

In all seriousness, your arguments are a lot more likely to be listened to if they're written well and spelled correctly.

Seriously?!? That's supposed to be me attacking someone?? On the contrary, I was being quite open and honest, and I meant what I said with no malice: Complaints, arguments, comments and suggestions are more effective, and more likely to be taken seriously, if they're written with coherent logic, backed up with fact, and expressed clearly - and that includes usage of correct grammar and spelling.

Come on! Who here has NEVER mistakenly mispelled a word without noticing in time to go back and correct?

** listens to sounds of crickets **

Nobody, of course, but that's not the point. You've even misspelled "misspelled" in your post, but the difference is that the rest of your argument is well thought out (even though I don't necessarily agree with it), and it's clear that you've reasoned out what you've written. A spelling, punctuation or grammar mistake carries a lot less emphasis when a poster such as yourself has the added advantage of logic and reason in your argument.

Right. Look, I personally think the avatar is tasteless but he has every right to use it unless the mods on this forum say otherwise. However, belittling a poster because you don't agree with them is a cowardly act.

You're right, and that's why I haven't done it. If I've made fun of or teased somebody, it's not because I have an issue with them, it's because I think their post itself is nonsensical or silly. I wouldn't belittle Lynx or Brit or anybody else, because I don't know them. If they, or anybody else, says something I think is silly, then yeah, I'm going to call them on saying something silly. Post, not poster.

Have I ever gotten carried away in the heat of the moment? Yeah, probably, and I'll be more vigilant about the "post, not poster" rule in the future, to make sure I don't break it.

Do you mean me? No, I didn't. I didn't attack anyone. I mocked, yeah, I'll cop to that, but that's not an attack.

You know you're right. You did make it a point to mock instead of attack although there are some who would say that mockery is a form of attack. I guess it all depends on how you look at it.

Well, I think that's kind splitting hairs a bit, but okay. I appreciate that you get the distinction, and I'll try and curb my acid tongue in the interest of keeping the peace.

Okay, now I'm genuinely puzzled. I've been around the board for a while and while I've seen fans get very passionate about Janeway as well as other characters the term "militant" seems a bit strong.

Meanwhile, over in the Voyager forum...

Another noob. Bring out "the comfy chair"!

;)

You don't like my comfy chair joke? It's a Python reference - it's not like I'm torturing newbies over there! ;)

I love the comfy chair joke, by the way. ;)

Dude, "a little bit happy"?

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

Yup, a little bit. :)

(In all seriousness, have I ever told you that I love your signature? "Fictitiously yours" is just a cool turn of phrase.)

ClayinCA is responding to Brit's attempts to censor him because of his avatar, which is itself a form of personal attack. I have no sympathy for someone who tries to censor someone else and then gets insulted for it.

Thank you, Sci, I appreciate that.
 
You've even misspelled "misspelled" in your post,

So I did. :D

I love the comfy chair joke, by the way. ;)

I knew we could reach common ground. :)

Dude, "a little bit happy"?

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

Yup, a little bit. :)

(In all seriousness, have I ever told you that I love your signature? "Fictitiously yours" is just a cool turn of phrase.)

Not to jump on the bandwagon but I've always liked that sig too. As for the "jumping up and down" bit - ouch!

ClayinCA is responding to Brit's attempts to censor him because of his avatar, which is itself a form of personal attack. I have no sympathy for someone who tries to censor someone else and then gets insulted for it.

Thank you, Sci, I appreciate that.

She expressed an opinion on the avatar and you must admit the avatar was created to get a reaction. I saw no attempt at censorship...

Now who all wants to take time out for a group hug?

** crickets chirp **

[gilda radner]
Never mind...
[/gilda rader]
 
I'll participate in the group hug - though, kimc, if it's just you and me, that might be a little weird... :D

(And you've just gone even farther up in my estimation by referencing Gilda Radner. My goodness, I love that woman...)
 
She expressed an opinion on the avatar and you must admit the avatar was created to get a reaction. I saw no attempt at censorship...

She said that she was going to alert a moderator in an attempt to get the mods to force him to change avatars.

That's an attempt at censorship.
 
(And you've just gone even farther up in my estimation by referencing Gilda Radner. My goodness, I love that woman...)

One of the few comdedians who has made me laugh so hard tears were running down my face.

She expressed an opinion on the avatar and you must admit the avatar was created to get a reaction. I saw no attempt at censorship...

She said that she was going to alert a moderator in an attempt to get the mods to force him to change avatars.

That's an attempt at censorship.

Oh please. Stating an opinion about an avatar is not censorship. Censorship would be the board admins not allowing any mention of "Before Dishonor" or some other such thing.

Heck, I'm a mod and I don't like the 'effin avatar. I would expect a Gilda Radner fan to have more taste. ;)
 
(And you've just gone even farther up in my estimation by referencing Gilda Radner. My goodness, I love that woman...)

One of the few comdedians who has made me laugh so hard tears were running down my face.

She expressed an opinion on the avatar and you must admit the avatar was created to get a reaction. I saw no attempt at censorship...

She said that she was going to alert a moderator in an attempt to get the mods to force him to change avatars.

That's an attempt at censorship.

Oh please. Stating an opinion about an avatar is not censorship. Censorship would be the board admins not allowing any mention of "Before Dishonor" or some other such thing.

Heck, I'm a mod and I don't like the 'effin avatar. I would expect a Gilda Radner fan to have more taste. ;)

And I don't like yours!

Any mention of decaf coffee makes me itch.


:p
 
One of the few comdedians who has made me laugh so hard tears were running down my face.

Me too. Did you ever see her appearance on It's Garry Shandling Show? Her last TV appearance, I think. Laughed so hard I cried. They should put that whole series on DVD just for that one episode....

Heck, I'm a mod and I don't like the 'effin avatar. I would expect a Gilda Radner fan to have more taste. ;)

Ohhhh, I -- ohhhhhhhhhhh! :scream: :p

Well played, kimc. Very well played! :techman: :guffaw:
 
i just wish that all these militant Janeway fans would rack off and quit bitching about something that happened a year ago and get the hell over it. it's a character in a fragging book! it's not like someone raped your cat and murdered your kids! IT. IS. A. BOOK!

IT'S NOT REAL!!!

If it upsets you so much then don't read the posts. You have the right to put certain posters on "Ignore" if you need to but you do not have the right to say who can and can't post here.
But, isn't your primary complaint that you have been and are being ignored? Isn't that the reason we now have four threads devoted to an editorial decision made three years ago that by all indications is not going to be reversed or changed?

But if you're offer me the option to ignore this idiocy, I'd be a fool to refuse...
 
^ Minor point: Picard and Worf were the mutineers, along with La Forge. Kadohata, T'Lana, and Leybenzon were the ones actually following lawful orders....

Picard and Worf were insubordinate by refusing to follow orders. That is not the same as mutiny.

The definition of mutiny is actually pointing a gun at your captain`s head or remove him otherwise by force. After this incredibly clumsy mutiny failed the gang in question finally gave up and supported the captain after all.

To me there is no question who is right and wrong here and waving a law book around doesn`t change that. Of course the moralities here are debatable but I think people should be more careful with the word mutiny.
 
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