Julian disgusted me as a person

[You_Will_Fail]

He was generally annoying but harmless over the years but actually ending up with Ezri Dax soured me on him completely.
It really did appear as a case of him getting sloppy seconds, I can't believe the writers put him with her, it made my skin crawl.
If I was Worf I woulda just killed him somehow.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I don't see why it's a bad combination...frankly, I thought Jadzia's treatment of men was very poor, and Ezri showed a lot more respect. I also think that Ezri's maturity level was more suited to Julian--she didn't act like she was all that, the way Jadzia did.

 

[You_Will_Fail]

Aren't you kind of missing the point?
Julian couldn't get Jadzia so he went after the next best thing, it was really low.

 

[Rush Limborg]

Eh...no.

I understand this is a VERY common misconception (and this was the apparent justification for the rage-inducing final scene in Unjoined), that Ezri was just Julian's "substitute" for Jadzia--but frankly, it is completely false.

Ezri actually destroyed any chance of this happening by her moment with him in "Afterimage". To be honest...I think her moment when she said, "If Worf hadn't come along, it would've been you," was a real wake-up call for Julian.

You can see him struggling inside, torn with emotions within. I, personally, read his thoughts thus, Confound it, Jadzia...why didn't you ever tell me? Was it a game for you, that I wasn't skilled enough to see? Why didn't you ever give any indication...that there was something more?

Or thoughts to that effect. The point is, it was a wake-up call, in that Julian finally realized that, if he was not eager enough to keep trying for Jadzia--when if he would have, he and she would have gotten together--that it wasn't truly love, just a fool's infatuation on his part.

Now...as for his relationship with Ezri, note carefully how the relationship developes. For most of the season, they are very dear friends, building each other up when down, enjoying each other's company, and the like.

In "Strange Bedfellows", as Julian reflects on the missing Ezri, he mumbles, "Funny... I was just starting to..."

When O'Brien asks what he's talking about, Julian says even he isn't sure what he's saying, "But...there was something about her...wasn't there? She's this old soul...and yet, so young at heart...."

It was at this point that Julian begins to realize he's fallen in love with her. Had she been a "substitute", he'd have been entertaining thoughts about this long before. Not until long after the two have become very dear friends...does he fall in love.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Aren't you kind of missing the point?
Julian couldn't get Jadzia so he went after the next best thing, it was really low.

I don't see it as low, especially considering that the stumbling block was Jadzia's arrogance, which was not a trait of Ezri's personality at all. If anything, the way Jadzia treated men was low.

 

[You_Will_Fail]

That doesn't really give me any reason to change my view.
Ezri was going against her culture by basically just assuming Jadzia's life and even getting in bed with one of Jadzia's potential love interests. It reflects badly on Ezri in that she couldn't seem to really mould her own life and on Julian in that he let Ezri and ended up with Dax in another body. The whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[exodus]

He was generally annoying but harmless over the years but actually ending up with Ezri Dax soured me on him completely.
It really did appear as a case of him getting sloppy seconds, I can't believe the writers put him with her, it made my skin crawl.
If I was Worf I woulda just killed him somehow.

Sloppy seconds is if you bang the same girl after you friend does. Ezri is a complete & totally different person in every way. If Julian was getting Worf's sloppy seconds, he'd be a necrophealiac and that would be really disgusting.

 

[TheGodBen]

Aren't you kind of missing the point?
Julian couldn't get Jadzia so he went after the next best thing, it was really low.

Hypothetical scenario:

A man falls in love with a woman, but the woman isn't interested and eventually marries another man. Original man is upset, but he moves on with his life, dates some new people and commits suicide multiple times with his Irish drinking buddy (ignore that last part).

A couple of years later, he meets the sister of the woman he used to love. The sister is similar and shares many interests with the original woman, but has a distinct personality that the man finds even more enchanting. Is it low for the man to want to date this new woman? Why?

 

[Rush Limborg]

Ezri isn't Jadzia's sister. Not even close.

Just saying.

 

[Rush Limborg]

That doesn't really give me any reason to change my view.
Ezri was going against her culture by basically just assuming Jadzia's life

She didn't.

and even getting in bed with one of Jadzia's potential love interests. It reflects badly on Ezri in that she couldn't seem to really mould her own life and on Julian in that he let Ezri and ended up with Dax in another body.

I...don't understand your last sentence. it's constructed...oddly....

If it means what it looks like...no, Julian wasn't attracted to the symbiont. He was attracted to Jadzia. He later fell in love with Ezri.

 

[Nightdiamond]

Ezri at times, could be all over the place though, romantically speaking.

She slept with Worf in "Penumbra".

When Worf finally accepts her and said 'we will have many years together' she then has this look of serious doubt, like, "ummmmm we'll see....."

Then, not much later under similar tense circumstances, she ends up kissing Julian and eventually sleeps with him.

However to be fair, Worf and her did patch things up before they escaped and came to a new understanding.

 

[exodus]

Ezri at times, could be all over the place though, romantically speaking.

She slept with Worf in "Penumbra".

When Worf finally accepts her and said 'we will have many years together' she then has this look of serious doubt, like, "ummmmm we'll see....."

Then, not much later under similar tense circumstances, she ends up kissing Julian and eventually sleeps with him.

However to be fair, Worf and her did patch things up before they escaped and came to a new understanding.

That's because she had ideas & memories in her head that weren't her's and she couldn't sort them out clearly.

 

[Rush Limborg]

Ezri at times, could be all over the place though, romantically speaking.

She slept with Worf in "Penumbra".

When Worf finally accepts her and said 'we will have many years together' she then has this look of serious doubt, like, "ummmmm we'll see....."

I'd say, right then, she has a moment of realization--that Worf is just seeing her as a "second shot" at Jadzia.

Honestly? You Will Fail's anger is directed at the wrong guy....

Then, not much later under similar tense circumstances, she ends up kissing Julian and eventually sleeps with him.

However to be fair, Worf and her did patch things up before they escaped and came to a new understanding.

Yeah...and another thing: technically, her circumstances with Julian weren't nearly as "tense". They were "tense", to be sure--but in a far different manner.

Also...she had discovered her love for Julian far earlier. (Her innerost subconcious feelings had been driven out into the open. Note her reaction when Worf brought it up. She says, "Julian...? I...I'm in love with...Julian?" in a tone of someone filled with wonder, as she makes an astounding discovery. In effect, "Oh, my gosh...it all makes sense...!")

 

[Saga]

He was generally annoying but harmless over the years but actually ending up with Ezri Dax soured me on him completely.
It really did appear as a case of him getting sloppy seconds, I can't believe the writers put him with her, it made my skin crawl.
If I was Worf I woulda just killed him somehow.

lol. don't mince words tell us how you really feel.

 

[You_Will_Fail]

Ezri may have had a different personality, but there is really no doubting that she basically just assumed Jadzia's life. Newly joined trills aren't really supposed to work and the same place and hang out with ALL the same people the previous host did. What does it say about Ezri as a person that she can't even carve out her own identity but basically does what Jadzia had been doing for the past 6 years?

The sister anaology is ridiculous as the relationship between sisters isn't anything like the relationship between hosts. Ezri had ALL of Jadzia's memories and even feelings.

Julian never got in with Jadzia-Dax so he gets in with Ezri-Dax, her inferior successor, it really disgusts me that he could be such a creep. I believe sloppy seconds perfectly describes what Julian got, although in an unconventional way.

 

[Rush Limborg]

(sigh) I've made my case.... I don't think I need to repeat it....

But here's a new point: Ezri did NOT "basically do what Jadzia had been doing for the past 6 years".

There is a big difference between science officer and counselor.

I don't understand what you are saying.

 

[You_Will_Fail]

There is a big difference between science officer and counselor.

Just because they have different job titles doesn't mean Ezri wasn't basically living Jadzia's life. She was still being used for battles, away missions, dispensing valuable information gained from her hosts and most importantly - still living in the same place, still talking to the same people every day. What about Ezri's daily life really differed from Jadzia's?

Exactly what isn't clear about that? I think its fairly obvious that apart from a different rank, face and personality, very little about her actual LIFE differed from Jadzia's. She didn't seem to carve out her own place.

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

Personally I grew to love Bashir. Worf was the one who wanted to see Jadzia in Ezri all the time.

 

[Rush Limborg]

^Thank you.

I think its fairly obvious that apart from a different rank, face and personality, very little about her actual LIFE differed from Jadzia's.

Okay...so...her actual life was the same as Jadzia's...other than her actual life.

She didn't seem to carve out her own place.

Okay--Curzon was Sisko's good friend and confidant. Jadzia was Sisko's good friend and confidant. By your logic, it's therefore fairly obvious that apart from a different rank, face and personality...her life was the same as Curzon's.

(And, as Nerys would point out, personality-wise, Jadzia and Curzon were more similar than not....)

 

[You_Will_Fail]

I'd love for you to tell me what about Ezri's life was so different from Jadzia's.
She worked with the senior team on DS9, she drank in Quark's with the same people, ate lunch with the same people, slept on the same station in quarters that were probably near enough identical to Jadzia's, went on missions with the Defiant with the same people.
Nothing about her surroundings were different from Jadzia's! She wasn't carving out a new life for herself, she was mostly just slotting right back into Jadzia's life.

Also, you're just being obnoxiously obtuse with the Curzon comparison and you know it. Jadzia worked with ONE person she knew from a past host, Ezri..well I've already explained Ezri.