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Joker Origin Story Announced

Th Gay Blade of Zorro.

Sneaky.

I was trying to work out the dates to see if Frances Conroy might have been playing the same character in Catwoman and Joker.

Shit, she also played Martha Kent in two Superman animated movies, which is the character who pontificates that any two different women with any similarities are being the same person, wrote in stone.
 
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Sympathy and empathy are not the same.

I felt a good deal of empathy with the character, and certainly identification. Identification with the viewpoint character is central to popular movie narrative, and awful as Fleck is the plain truth is that it wouldn't be an almost billion dollar movie if a huge number of people didn't want on some level to be with this guy for two hours.

And yes, the same is true for the likes of Hannibal Lector. No one wants to cop to that, but it's how the movies work.

What's really sad about commercial movie-making is how often the creators fumble what a naive viewer might think is the simple and straightforward task of getting the audience to identify with a good guy - a hero. And that's why so many movies that work on paper just bomb.

And that's the core of the movie isn't it?

I just saw it today and was blown away by the acting and the story. The movie is so good because it offers no definitive black and white answer unlike the standard Marvel and DC movies (which i also like for their spectacle). Everybody has to interpret it in their own way, with their own life experience and personal stance and come to a conclusion if Arthuer Fleck is a victim of life and the society which never gave him a break or is he solely responsible for his own action or maybe something in between or even something else.

This ambiguity is what makes this movie so damn good on top of an Oscar worthy performance by Phoenix. While i was watching it i couldn't help it and compared it to the other great Joker played by Heath Ledger and wonder if Phoenix' Joker could be the origin story and then seamlessly flash forward to Heath' Joker as the finished "product" .

Couldn't also help it and smile broadly when we got to met the Waynes, especially Bruce, and see the origin story of Batman.. it wasn't needed but added such a nice touch (but please don't make a sequel with Phoenix' Joker taking on Batman, this portrayal should not be watered down with a simple good vs. evil fight movie).
 
Remember when lots of people predicted flop, and other said "well, it's not like it needs to make over a billion to break even...". Well it didn't, but it did break a billion anyway.

Hope everyone is ready for a million villain based movies coming up!
 
They're all going to either be like Venom or will think they can get away with being INO films.
By "getting away with" you mean "pleasing wide audiences without pandering to fanbois."

Good. :)

The icing on the cake is that this movie cost so much less than most Marvel costume melodramas and made more money than most of those.

Sweet.
 
By "getting away with" you mean

Superhero movies as they were in the mid 2000s, stuff like Ghost Rider or Elektra. Films with no ambition or real intelligence.

The icing on the cake is that this movie cost so much less than most Marvel costume melodramas and made more money than most of those.

Sweet.

Well obviously WB bought empty seats, ;).

And it starred one of their oldest and most well known characters who folks have obsessed over for years especially after 2008. And it had all that "no such thing as bad publicity" stuff aiding it since we were warned it would be about an angry white man striking back at society. It was a film that angry white men have been waiting years for.
 
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And it starred one of their oldest and most well known characters who folks have obsessed over for years especially after 2008. And it had all that "no such thing as bad publicity" stuff aiding it since we were warned it would be about an angry white man striking back at society. It was a film that angry white men have been waiting years for.
What does the color of his skin have to do with anything in this movie? He’s not striking out at racial minorities or political correctness.
 
What does the color of his skin have to do with anything in this movie?

Same thing it had to do with "Falling Down".

He’s not striking out at racial minorities or political correctness.

He's still a white guy striking back at a society he thinks owes him. Like a woman he felt entitled to, co-workers he felt screwed him (although it was his own fault), a "mentor" he felt "betrayed him" (although he WAS a terrible comedian), the Elites, etc.
 
What does the color of his skin have to do with anything in this movie? He’s not striking out at racial minorities or political correctness.

It had nothing to do with his skin color in relation to the character origins/motives; this particular color issue was largely the media-created myth of what made the Joker, which--to anyone who actually watched the film sans agenda contacts grafted to their eyes--was not about an "angry white man." Trying to attach that to the Joker is hard evidence of socio-politicized, boogeyman nonsense.
 
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