Ahh, the supremely arrogant yet criminally ignorant.
JMS on the Babylon Podcast
- Thread starter glindros
- Start date
Ahh, the supremely arrogant yet criminally ignorant.
I'm looking forward to the second part of this. My favorite part of the first half was JMS's revelation about the end of Crusade's first season, what would have happened to Gideon.
It tracks perfectly with the script, and it's a shame we never got to experience what he had planned.
It tracks perfectly with the script, and it's a shame we never got to experience what he had planned.
As well as those old enough and attentive enough to have actually watched this as it developed.
S
Stone_Cold_Sisko
Guest
"they had a nice arc to the story ... too bad it was ours"
JMS said this, a few years after the shows ended. And considering there are multiple reports that the studio was uncomfortable with the DS9 writers heavy arc-based stuff in later seasons, sure sounds like he's accusing the WRITERS of ripping him off.
Delenn said:
I think that ten years after the show's been off the air qualifies this as an 'old battle' and this self-styled B5 historian is uninterested in continuing to discuss it.
Jan
if ds9 ripped off b5, then why doesn't jms sue?
his buddy harlan ellison is a world-class litigant - suing people left, right and center for the stupidest bullshit.
so if paramount screwed him over (re: ds9), why didn't jms sue?
if TNT screwed him over (re: crusade), why didn't jms sue?
my theory: jms hates lawyers (he seems to share that with whedon...); i assume he would rather just not go down that road. unfortunately, his aversion to litigation means that people will just keep screwing him over. cause that's the fucked up world we live in...
his buddy harlan ellison is a world-class litigant - suing people left, right and center for the stupidest bullshit.
so if paramount screwed him over (re: ds9), why didn't jms sue?
if TNT screwed him over (re: crusade), why didn't jms sue?
my theory: jms hates lawyers (he seems to share that with whedon...); i assume he would rather just not go down that road. unfortunately, his aversion to litigation means that people will just keep screwing him over. cause that's the fucked up world we live in...
I find it amazing he can still make this claim with a straight face for two main reasons: so much of the DS9 milieu had it roots in TNG (or even older Trek) stories (Cardassians, Bajorans, the Occupation, Major Kira (originally Ro Laren), the Ferengi, Wormholes, shape shifters, Trills, O’Brien, Worf, Wolf 359, Mirror Universe, and any number of recurring characters) only somebody who was certifiable would suggest the ideas behind DS9 were his to steal.
Secondly, Babylon 5 itself was hardly a work of staggering originality. If JMS can publicly accuse DS9's creators of plagiarism because there were ambassadors and traders on the station (which were tiny, largely background elements of the show) as well as a female commander (!!!!) and a casino (!!!!), I would love to hear a mouthy Tolkien's thoughts on Babylon 5, the Shadow War, and sticky-fingered television producers in general.
Secondly, Babylon 5 itself was hardly a work of staggering originality. If JMS can publicly accuse DS9's creators of plagiarism because there were ambassadors and traders on the station (which were tiny, largely background elements of the show) as well as a female commander (!!!!) and a casino (!!!!), I would love to hear a mouthy Tolkien's thoughts on Babylon 5, the Shadow War, and sticky-fingered television producers in general.
I guess the difference is that I think he admits that he "borrowed" from LOTR.
At the time, TNT was known mainly for its westerns (a diminishing niche market), and I think some exec got a wild hair and wanted to diversify. So they showed basketball (which was successful for them) and tried some sci-fi. I think Witchblade came out the year after Crusade, so they apparently were still fiddling with a sci-fi show in their format. I think they were trying to create a network like Spike became: a network for the dude demographic. They just didn't do it well.
I think I've read pretty much everything he mentioned before (including some of the sabotage notes they sent) so no surprises really. Still pisses me off though. I was more interested to hear how the different WB departments are actively encouraged to trip each other up. Surely someone must realise by now how counter productive that is! Though it does somewhat explain the disproportionally poor treatment B5 has gotten from those quarters over the years.
Yeah, he's mentioned the inter-department rivalry many times but this interview goes into more detail on how it's affected B5 over the years.
BTW, part 2 of the JMS interview is up now at http://www.babylonpodcast.com/
Jan
Just finished part 2 now. What I liked the most was how he qualified his stand-off with WB about further B5 projects. Maybe it was just my preconceptions getting the better of me, but when I read his posting about that some months ago I was left with the impression that he was saying "no more low budget B5" simply because his career is moving on and anything less than a bog movie wouldn't be worth his time. Hearing him say his reasoning out loud, I am greatly comforted to know he's actually doing it for all the right reasons. To make sure the material has the support it requires and to not put any more inferior product out there.
As much as I like the TV movies, Crusade, Lost Tales - and yes, I'm even starting to warm to LotR - all these false starts aren't doing Babylon 5 any favours and if's there's going to be a new project, better to make sure it gets done right and is adequately funded. If not then better to let it lie since WB is clearly not going to do anything B5 that some of us want (audio books, video games etc.) without there being a profitable movie or series to hang it off.
If I'm reading it right they're willing to go for it (probably more so thanks to JJ Abrams's Trek) JMS just needs to find a viable story that's worth doing.
Which is another comfort since the idea of a B5 feature film has always sent a shiver down my spine. I have a really hard time thinking of a senario where we have a 2 hour story that's both respectful to the material, the fans AND is accessable to people who've never heard to Vorlons and probably wouldn't care.
I can only assume from that that the "Memory of Shadows" script he did a while back is either no longer "satisfactory" or otherwise unavailible for use.
As much as I like the TV movies, Crusade, Lost Tales - and yes, I'm even starting to warm to LotR - all these false starts aren't doing Babylon 5 any favours and if's there's going to be a new project, better to make sure it gets done right and is adequately funded. If not then better to let it lie since WB is clearly not going to do anything B5 that some of us want (audio books, video games etc.) without there being a profitable movie or series to hang it off.
If I'm reading it right they're willing to go for it (probably more so thanks to JJ Abrams's Trek) JMS just needs to find a viable story that's worth doing.
Which is another comfort since the idea of a B5 feature film has always sent a shiver down my spine. I have a really hard time thinking of a senario where we have a 2 hour story that's both respectful to the material, the fans AND is accessable to people who've never heard to Vorlons and probably wouldn't care.
I can only assume from that that the "Memory of Shadows" script he did a while back is either no longer "satisfactory" or otherwise unavailible for use.
IIRC, JMS said that WB called him with the question about how big a budget he'd need before the latest Trek came out.
Having seen the opening sequence of the Lost Tales on a big screen when JMS previewed it in New York a few years ago, I can tell you that I long to see the station on a big screen again.
As for 'The Memory of Shadows', that was commissioned by a person or company who'd optioned the rights to a B5 movie (which JMS owns). If JMS were to want to use that story he'd have to buy it back from the original entity which commissioned it. Plus, while I don't like to pretend I can read his mind, the way he phrased the post where he announced that the project had dead-ended led me to believe that it wasn't the story at the end that he'd wanted to tell in the beginning.
I like that he's not in any hurry but wants to wait until there's a story in the B5 universe that he really burns to tell.
Jan
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That's the impression I was left with too. Plus, IIRC Richard Biggs passed away while that project was on the go and Franklin was in it and could not be easily written out. That alone I think might be reason enough to not revisit that script.
I think the most frustrating thing for me (and I don't know if I'm alone in this or not) is that most of the projects and stories I'd like to see are precisely the one's that can't be done since nobody is willing to fund them and the projects some may be willing to fund may actually damage the chances of the former.
I'd like to see the comics reissued with a better artist (hell I'd offer to colour it for free if I thought I was good enough!) I'd like to see the 3 novel trilogies produced as unabridged audiobooks (in the highly unlikely dream scenario where Walter and the two Peters each voice their own character's books.) While we're fantasising I would have liked "Into the Fire" not to have been dumped in a skip by Sierra about 32 seconds before it was released but most of all I'd like a proper presentation of the orignial 5 years on DVD. Actually, that may be one of the only things that could convince me to buy a bluray player before they become old and cheep! Of course that last one would be the least likely to happen without a MAJOR box office success since it'd require tons of hard work and and a lot of money to replace all of the CG for a HD standard presentation and you're not going to get either without a studio convinced they'd get a profitable return.
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