"JJ" Scotty vs. "Classic" Scotty

[RCAM]

This post is genuinely more about my interest in hearing other people's reactions than espousing my own, so I won't really be debating people who disagree...

I have a lot of trouble recognizing Montgomery Scott in the JJ movies. The Scotty of classic Trek certainly had a sense of humor, but he was also hyper-professional and extremely respectful to Kirk.

JJ Scotty is a prankster who says ludicrous things like, "Well, if it isn't Captain Perfect Hair!" He's, to be blunt, pretty immature and... the opposite of the Scotty I know and love.

Now, there's potential "in-universe" explanations for that. Ending up on that distant outpost he was at before joining the Enterprise could have had a profound effect on his personality. But I think that may be stretching it.

You could also argue that Scotty's demeanor is sort of a response to the immature personality of JJ Kirk and that JJ Scotty wouldn't interact the same way with TOS Kirk.

In any case, like I said, not trying to start an "I hate/love JJ Trek" debate. Whether you liked JJ Trek or you hated it, did you recognize the Montgomery Scott that appeared on the big screen?

 

[urbandefault]

In the new movies we're looking at much younger versions of the TOS characters. They aren't yet the characters we're familiar with.

Personally, I like Pegg's take on Scotty.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

I think this Scotty views Kirk primarily as his friend whereas the Scotty of TOS saw him primarily as his boss--and Kirk saw the relationship that way, too.

 

[BillJ]

I think Pegg was far more recognizable as Scotty in the second film as opposed to the first. Hoping they get him into the captains chair in the third film.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Also worth noting: when Scotty called Kirk "Perfect Hair" he was both drunk and a civilian.

 

[Commishsleer]

This post is genuinely more about my interest in hearing other people's reactions than espousing my own, so I won't really be debating people who disagree...

I have a lot of trouble recognizing Montgomery Scott in the JJ movies. The Scotty of classic Trek certainly had a sense of humor, but he was also hyper-professional and extremely respectful to Kirk.

JJ Scotty is a prankster who says ludicrous things like, "Well, if it isn't Captain Perfect Hair!" He's, to be blunt, pretty immature and... the opposite of the Scotty I know and love.

Now, there's potential "in-universe" explanations for that. Ending up on that distant outpost he was at before joining the Enterprise could have had a profound effect on his personality. But I think that may be stretching it.

You could also argue that Scotty's demeanor is sort of a response to the immature personality of JJ Kirk and that JJ Scotty wouldn't interact the same way with TOS Kirk.

In any case, like I said, not trying to start an "I hate/love JJ Trek" debate. Whether you liked JJ Trek or you hated it, did you recognize the Montgomery Scott that appeared on the big screen?

I agree with you.
In fact I don't see any similarity between nuScotty and PrimeScotty. Even taking into account bringing Scotty up-to-date for 21st century audiences.
I can't see nuScotty threatening Eminair with General Order 24.
However I still like the nuScotty character. But I can never see him growing into Prime Scotty

 

[Brutal Strudel]

I see less disconnect between the Scotties than I do between the Uhuras or (most glaringly) the Kirks. Alternate time-line aside, I just view these movies a total reboot, with no more connection to TOS than Christian Bale's Batman has to Adam West's, although in the opposite direction regarding tonality.

EDIT: Perhaps Pierce Brosnan's and Sean Connery's Bonds would be the better analogy.

 

[RCAM]

I see less disconnect between the Scotties than I do between the Uhuras or (most glaringly) the Kirks. Alternate time-line aside, I just view these movies a total reboot, with no more connection to TOS than Christian Bale's Batman has to Adam West's, although in the opposite direction regarding tonality.

EDIT: Perhaps Pierce Brosnan's and Sean Connery's Bonds would be the better analogy.

I actually agree with this. While I think there's a chasm between the Scotties, there's planets between the Uhuras.

I think I'd actually like the movies better if they were just a separate sci-fi action property, as opposed to being "Star Trek." They're very competently made -- just not what I'm looking for out of this franchise.

Anyway... I'm straying off-topic here...

urbandefault, you bring up an interesting point: how much younger is Scotty supposed to be than he was on TOS?

 

[F. King Daniel]

A younger and scrawnier Scotty with a chip on his shoulder. That's nuScotty. i don't see him as immature at all - he's never put the ship in danger and in fact resigned because he disagreed with the Enterprise's manhunt mission in ID.

As Brutal Strudel said, he knows Kirk as a friend first and superior officer second. They met with one a cadet stowaway who'd teamed up with a time travelling Vulcan and the other a disgraced botched beagle beaming engineer. Compare to Trek-Prime where we presume they met when Kirk was assigned captaincy and you have a very different dynamic evolve.

Scotty Prime once started a bar fight (and potentially caused an intergalactic incident) over the Enterprise's honour and later tried to drink an invading alien under the table. Certainly not "hyper professional", as much as I love the character. He also admitted to Kirk and later LaForge that he would lie about repair times.

Simon Pegg definitely brings a lot of himself to the role, and doesn't try to ape Doohan's mannerisms. It's definitely new spin on the character. I like it a lot, but each to their own.

 

[RCAM]

Scotty Prime once started a bar fight (and potentially caused an intergalactic incident) over the Enterprise's honour

The entire context of that, though, was how completely out-of-character it was. There's a reason Kirk is stunned to discover Scotty started it.

EDIT: I think I accidentally started debating there.

 

[Amaris]

I do see classic Scotty in Pegg's interpretation, though it's more the traditional "feel" than it is a behavioral pattern.

 

[urbandefault]

urbandefault, you bring up an interesting point: how much younger is Scotty supposed to be than he was on TOS?

I don't know, 6, 8, 10 years? He's as much younger as is the the rest of the crew.

Another point is that he's affected by the timeline split as much as everyone else. Things changed when Nero came through the hole in time (I think it was a mistake to call it a black hole--"singularity" would have been a better choice). People made different choices after that, influenced by circumstances. The choices he made in the new timeline put him in that outpost. He was probably a little bitter, and sometimes that leads to being a smartass. That doesn't make him any less competent.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

He also admitted to Kirk and later LaForge that he would lie about repair times.

I really hate that "Relics" took a joke from TSFS and made it into Scotty's actual modus operandi.

 

[RCAM]

urbandefault, you bring up an interesting point: how much younger is Scotty supposed to be than he was on TOS?

I don't know, 6, 8, 10 years? He's as much younger as is the the rest of the crew.

Another point is that he's affected by the timeline split as much as everyone else. Things changed when Nero came through the hole in time (I think it was a mistake to call it a black hole--"singularity" would have been a better choice). People made different choices after that, influenced by circumstances. The choices he made in the new timeline put him in that outpost. He was probably a little bitter, and sometimes that leads to being a smartass. That doesn't make him any less competent.

JJ Scotty is definitely a very competent engineer. And I can buy that Scotty's career going off the rails would have an affect on his personality. That wasn't the best assingment he had in ST09!

I didn't realize everyone was supposed to be as many as 8-10 years younger. If that's the case, it's odd to me that every character save Kirk and McCoy (Spock, Scotty, Uhura, Sulu, and Pavel) had all reached the rank they begin with in TOS.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I like this thread. It's exciting!

 

[BillJ]

He also admitted to Kirk and later LaForge that he would lie about repair times.

I really hate that "Relics" took a joke from TSFS and made it into Scotty's actual modus operandi.

Agreed.

 

[Use of Time]

While I might agree that nuScotty might be the farthest from his TOS counterpart, I think Pegg turns in the most entertaining portrayal of his counterpart than everyone except for Kirk and Spock.

 

[The Wormhole]

This was basically my problem with Scotty in Trek XI, the character was just there for comic relief purposes. TOS Scotty, as I've said many times and has already been said by others in this thread is a serious character who also happens to be funny. STID did a better job with the character, but I still don't see a professional and expert engineer when I see nu-Scotty. The problem lies in the writing, and indeed Pegg has said he'd prefer to play a more serious take on the character. But for whatever reason, Abrams and posse see Scotty as a buffoon.

Strangely enough, I actually do like the addition of Keenser as Scotty's best friend/sidekick. Even though he is just an extension of the comic relief that Scotty is there for, he works for me. The two of them create an interesting and fun dynamic which is great to watch.

 

[Use of Time]

This was basically my problem with Scotty in Trek XI, the character was just there for comic relief purposes. TOS Scotty, as I've said many times and has already been said by others in this thread is a serious character who also happens to be funny. STID did a better job with the character, but I still don't see a professional and expert engineer when I see nu-Scotty. The problem lies in the writing, and indeed Pegg has said he'd prefer to play a more serious take on the character. But for whatever reason, Abrams and posse see Scotty as a buffoon.

Strangely enough, I actually do like the addition of Keenser as Scotty's best friend/sidekick. Even though he is just an extension of the comic relief that Scotty is there for, he works for me. The two of them create an interesting and fun dynamic which is great to watch.

I think they are working towards that though. Like you said, he did have a more serious role in many parts of STID. I don't think of him as a buffoon either, more like a quirky genius. I think maybe one more movie ought to be enough to get him just right. I hope they don't tone him back too much though because I really enjoy Pegg's Scotty.

 

[M'Sharak]

Scotty Prime once started a bar fight (and potentially caused an intergalactic incident) over the Enterprise's honour

The entire context of that, though, was how completely out-of-character it was. There's a reason Kirk is stunned to discover Scotty started it.

Kirk was outwardly dismayed that Scotty was willing to let an insult to his captain slide, but not an insult to his ship. I don't think I'd agree that it was in any way out-of-character. Quite the contrary: it was perfectly in-character for Scotty to take personal pride in the ship and to take personally any aspersion cast upon it.

EDIT: I think I accidentally started debating there.

Eh, it's okay. I don't think anyone will hold it against you.