Jeri slams Chakotay/7

[exodus]

But, you know, fanfic.

And yes, die-hard C/7ers are for real. There's quite a few around fanfiction.net. It's funny how the J/C/7 love triangle works! LOL J/Cers are frosty towards 7, J/7ers generally want to airlock Chakotay, and a lot of C/7ers wish Janeway would die in a plasma fire.

They write C/7 fanfic?!?

I've read all three varieties of fanfic. And I've come to realize that of all of them, the C/7 is the most palatable to read. It's not as dumb as J/7, nor as soapish as J/C (where many stories have Chakotay crying in every. damn. chapter!)

There's one where "Endgame" never happened, and Voyager finds Seven's parents on a Borg cube. They rescue them, and Seven has to come to terms with whether or not to forgive the parents who, in turn, have to come to terms with their own guilt and that they remember their daughter as a little girl instead of an adult. The C/7 part of this story complements the action, instead of intruding.

As a viewer, I thought the relationship should have stayed Seven's holodeck experiment. I thought it was horrible. But the fanfic is actually quite good.

About the fanfic comment. There are good and bad fanfics in every pairing, and, yeah, I have read a lot of all of them. Not all of the J/C fanfic has a weepy Chakotay, of course. In fact, I'd say that's the exception, not the rule.

I am a J/Cer, as everyone probably knows, but I can tolerate decent J/7 and even C/7, now and then. My problem with those two pairings has a common element--I think Seven is just too immature to be involved seriously with either Janeway or Chakotay for long. I don't think Janeway would "take advantage" of her that way, and I think Chakotay would find her uninteresting (and vice versa). Add to that the fact that Janeway is about as straight as they come and, well, it just doesn't fit.

However, I think it's great that people continue to write about these characters, whatever pairing they prefer.

That's why J/C doesn't make sense to me.
After seeing the types of men Janeway was attracted to and the qualities that she put into the Michael hologram, Chakotay is a dumb brute compared to the more refined man Janeway if looking for. Not to mention Chakotay is a terrorist. How's it going to look for Janeway coming home to Starfleet romantically involved with the same guy you were sent to bring to justice? Starfleet would think Janeway's lost her objective and she never make Admiral with him as a lover.

I don't think Chakotay had anything to offer Janeway once they got to Earth. It think she'd be bored with him very quickly. If Janeway wasn't willing to put romance before her crews needs, then she wasn't going to put Chakotay before her career.

 

[Hound of UIster]

J/7 >>>>>>> C/7

 

[F. King Daniel]

Neelix/7, Paris/7, Flotter/7 >>>>>> C/7

 

[JB2005]

Flotter/Treevus FTW!!!!!!!!

 

[F. King Daniel]

^

 

[Gaith]

Neelix/7>>>>>> C/7

... and yet... it's true!

 

[AuntKate]

That's why J/C doesn't make sense to me.
After seeing the types of men Janeway was attracted to and the qualities that she put into the Michael hologram, Chakotay is a dumb brute compared to the more refined man Janeway if looking for. Not to mention Chakotay is a terrorist. How's it going to look for Janeway coming home to Starfleet romantically involved with the same guy you were sent to bring to justice? Starfleet would think Janeway's lost her objective and she never make Admiral with him as a lover.

I don't think Chakotay had anything to offer Janeway once they got to Earth. It think she'd be bored with him very quickly. If Janeway wasn't willing to put romance before her crews needs, then she wasn't going to put Chakotay before her career.

To each his/her own.

I think Chakotay is more of a refined man than comes across in the series (because he is mostly ignored by the writers). Janeway obviously trusts him to take care of issues with the crew, especially once the Maquis issue is settled, so his professionalism is good. He has an academy education and supposedly even taught there--which means that he must have an advanced degree and have published some articles. He must share some of her reading interests, since we know that they share books (at least Dante's Inferno--which is a really odd engagement gift from Mark, if you ask me). He has studied anthropology and archeology in addition to all the sciences required of an officer in the command track. And, he has delved into spiritualism after the death of his father and family at the hands of the Cardassians. He sounds pretty well-rounded to me.

Is he a terrorist? Or is he a freedom fighter? The fact that the Maquis were right might change the attitudes of the powers that be seven years later. We don't know if he was ever fighting against the Federation; the only time we see him in action, he is running from a Cardassian ship. Besides, she doesn't get involved with him in the DQ (not in my world). At first, she's engaged, and, by then, their friendship and working relationship have been established. Neither of them pushes it, which is probably in their best interests.

It isn't ridiculous to think that they might get involved once home. They have a lot of shared experience, they know/like each other, and they have interests in common. Friendship is a good basis for relationships. How many people go to a high school and college reunion only to reconnect with someone they once loved and thought they had left behind.

But, as I said, it all depends on what "floats your boat," I guess.

 

[exodus]

That's why J/C doesn't make sense to me.
After seeing the types of men Janeway was attracted to and the qualities that she put into the Michael hologram, Chakotay is a dumb brute compared to the more refined man Janeway if looking for. Not to mention Chakotay is a terrorist. How's it going to look for Janeway coming home to Starfleet romantically involved with the same guy you were sent to bring to justice? Starfleet would think Janeway's lost her objective and she never make Admiral with him as a lover.

I don't think Chakotay had anything to offer Janeway once they got to Earth. It think she'd be bored with him very quickly. If Janeway wasn't willing to put romance before her crews needs, then she wasn't going to put Chakotay before her career.

To each his/her own.

I think Chakotay is more of a refined man than comes across in the series (because he is mostly ignored by the writers). Janeway obviously trusts him to take care of issues with the crew, especially once the Maquis issue is settled, so his professionalism is good. He has an academy education and supposedly even taught there--which means that he must have an advanced degree and have published some articles. He must share some of her reading interests, since we know that they share books (at least Dante's Inferno--which is a really odd engagement gift from Mark, if you ask me). He has studied anthropology and archeology in addition to all the sciences required of an officer in the command track. And, he has delved into spiritualism after the death of his father and family at the hands of the Cardassians. He sounds pretty well-rounded to me.

Is he a terrorist? Or is he a freedom fighter? The fact that the Maquis were right might change the attitudes of the powers that be seven years later. We don't know if he was ever fighting against the Federation; the only time we see him in action, he is running from a Cardassian ship. Besides, she doesn't get involved with him in the DQ (not in my world). At first, she's engaged, and, by then, their friendship and working relationship have been established. Neither of them pushes it, which is probably in their best interests.

It isn't ridiculous to think that they might get involved once home. They have a lot of shared experience, they know/like each other, and they have interests in common. Friendship is a good basis for relationships. How many people go to a high school and college reunion only to reconnect with someone they once loved and thought they had left behind.

But, as I said, it all depends on what "floats your boat," I guess.

No, it's not really about what floats my boat.
I've just been told that if a woman calls a man "Friend", then there isn't a shot at it ever being romantic and that she literally sees him as nothing more than a brother. I think that's why Chakotay stops persuing Janeway.
Just like I don't believe in the Hareliquin romance idea of a man waiting 7 years for a woman.That's just from personal experance. I honestly don't know ANY guy that would do that when they have other options open.

 

[froot]

No, it's not really about what floats my boat.
I've just been told that if a woman calls a man "Friend", then there isn't a shot at it ever being romantic and that she literally sees him as nothing more than a brother. I think that's why Chakotay stops persuing Janeway.
Just like I don't believe in the Hareliquin romance idea of a man waiting 7 years for a woman.That's just from personal experance. I honestly don't know ANY guy that would do that when they have other options open.

I had a platonic male friend once, for several years. We got along great!

Eventually, the relationship changed over time and we married. So, yes, it happens. I'd hate to be in a relationship with someone I couldn't also call "friend."

 

[AuntKate]

No, it's not really about what floats my boat.
I've just been told that if a woman calls a man "Friend", then there isn't a shot at it ever being romantic and that she literally sees him as nothing more than a brother. I think that's why Chakotay stops persuing Janeway.
Just like I don't believe in the Hareliquin romance idea of a man waiting 7 years for a woman.That's just from personal experance. I honestly don't know ANY guy that would do that when they have other options open.

I know of lots of people who have been friends and ended up marrying each other. My roommate in college and I were friends with a guy we met at the dorm for YEARS. Then, one day, she calls and tells me they're getting married. They're going on twenty eight years. Maybe it's the exception, not the rule, but it does happen, and, as I said, friendship is a great basis for marriage and romance.

And the floating the boat was about what kind of fanfic you like.

Edited to add: If a woman breaks up with you or says she just wants to be friends, don't wait seven years to move on.

 

[AuntKate]

No, it's not really about what floats my boat.
I've just been told that if a woman calls a man "Friend", then there isn't a shot at it ever being romantic and that she literally sees him as nothing more than a brother. I think that's why Chakotay stops persuing Janeway.
Just like I don't believe in the Hareliquin romance idea of a man waiting 7 years for a woman.That's just from personal experance. I honestly don't know ANY guy that would do that when they have other options open.

I had a platonic male friend once, for several years. We got along great!

Eventually, the relationship changed over time and we married. So, yes, it happens. I'd hate to be in a relationship with someone I couldn't also call "friend."

Me, too. In fact, after nearly thirty years of marriage, I can say that friendship (and respect) last a lot longer than "love and romance."

 

[JB2005]

No, it's not really about what floats my boat.
I've just been told that if a woman calls a man "Friend", then there isn't a shot at it ever being romantic and that she literally sees him as nothing more than a brother. I think that's why Chakotay stops persuing Janeway.
Just like I don't believe in the Hareliquin romance idea of a man waiting 7 years for a woman.That's just from personal experance. I honestly don't know ANY guy that would do that when they have other options open.

I had a platonic male friend once, for several years. We got along great!

Eventually, the relationship changed over time and we married. So, yes, it happens. I'd hate to be in a relationship with someone I couldn't also call "friend."

Me, too. In fact, after nearly thirty years of marriage, I can say that friendship (and respect) last a lot longer than "love and romance."

My girlfriend and I have been best friends for the last 5 years and a couple for nearly 13 months now, so I'll agree with this too!

 

[Markira]

I had a platonic male friend once, for several years. We got along great!

Eventually, the relationship changed over time and we married. So, yes, it happens. I'd hate to be in a relationship with someone I couldn't also call "friend."

Me, too. In fact, after nearly thirty years of marriage, I can say that friendship (and respect) last a lot longer than "love and romance."

My girlfriend and I have been best friends for the last 5 years and a couple for nearly 13 months now, so I'll agree with this too!

Not that you need any more anecdotal evidence of people who go from "just friends" to spouses, but here's mine. My husband and I were very good friends for a year and a half in college, until we realized we had deeper feelings for each other and started dating. Of course it's a risk to the friendship if things don't work out, but in our case they worked out great - we'll be celebrating 6 years of marriage in May and have 2 beautiful children. Also, we're still best friends.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

And lets not forget Picard and Beverly who are friends for like 20 years and finally get married and have a kid in Treklit. Or Deanna and Riker who are apart for at least 7 years as friends only.

 

[Mareika]

The weirdest thing is that KM is the one who usually praises C/7 the most, LOL.

Yes, I´ve also been wondering about Kate praising C/7 so much (although I`ve to agree).
She said:"Sexy meets sexy!"

Thank for the link to Jery`s interview.
I think, this part is really interesting.

It's not that I didn't buy it ... My problem with that relationship was that it came out of the blue. They had started the set-up of the relationship a few episodes earlier, in the episode ("Human Error") where Seven was experimenting with her humanity on the holodeck. And so she sort of fell in love with Chakotay there. They said something like her could never have these sorts of relationships because she would die, or whatever. The next episode that we shot after that ("Natural Law"), Seven and Chakotay were stranded on some planet together. We specifically asked the producers - Robert and I - "Now, are we going to play this? Is this going to go somewhere? Because, obviously, we'd need to carry something over from ... " And they said, "No, no, no, no! Absolutely not. Don't play any of that. Nothing's going to happen."

What the hell happend to the writers?????
4!!!! episodes before the end of the series with C/7 they told RB and Jery that Nothing's going to happen.
I can`t believe it.
Robert Beltran is right about the writers.

 

[Guy Gardener]

And lets not forget Picard and Beverly who are friends for like 20 years and finally get married and have a kid in Treklit. Or Deanna and Riker who are apart for at least 7 years as friends only.

Friends?

meh.

Riker might have thought that, but I always assumed that Dee was just waiting for him to grow up and figure out that she was all he had ever been looking for in a woman... Or a hermaphrodite for that matter.

Note how quickly she stepped up when Tom Riker entered the scene, or how easily she took off her all her clothes and stepped into the bath tub with this monkey.

Was she delusional? Was he a manchild?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

She was delusional when she married that barking idiot.

 

[exodus]

Edited to add: If a woman breaks up with you or says she just wants to be friends, don't wait seven years to move on.

Please girl, who you tellin'?

 

[teya]

Perhaps because she was blonde.

But Mair, I tend to agree with your theory. And KM wasn't keen on Janeway getting together with any of the crew besides, which does make my little J/C heart sad.

But, you know, fanfic.

And yes, die-hard C/7ers are for real. There's quite a few around fanfiction.net. It's funny how the J/C/7 love triangle works! LOL J/Cers are frosty towards 7, J/7ers generally want to airlock Chakotay, and a lot of C/7ers wish Janeway would die in a plasma fire.

EDIT: There have been "Die, Seven, Die" and "Die, Chakotay, Die" fic challenges, but I dunno if they ever made a "Die, Janeway, Die" challenge.

Nah, we just had "Die J/C Die." And you'd've thunk we'd committed the most heinous sin. The rules were that you couldn't kill off any character, even Janeway.


I wrote a couple of C/7 fics--and won "Die J/C Die. According to J/Cers I am reasonably competent as a writer but am obviously seriously emotionally stunted. My late sweetie would disagree, but I'm sure that a bunch of people who've read my fic know me better than he.


As to Jeri's interview, Guy is right. If you read the entire interview, she didn't "slam" C/7, she said they should have built up to it. Most everyone who likes C/7 agrees.


As for who C/7 fans are... I'm a Seven fan first.


Yeah, we exist, too. Bummer, huh?

 

[teya]

But, you know, fanfic.

And yes, die-hard C/7ers are for real. There's quite a few around fanfiction.net. It's funny how the J/C/7 love triangle works! LOL J/Cers are frosty towards 7, J/7ers generally want to airlock Chakotay, and a lot of C/7ers wish Janeway would die in a plasma fire.

They write C/7 fanfic?!?

I've read all three varieties of fanfic. And I've come to realize that of all of them, the C/7 is the most palatable to read. It's not as dumb as J/7, nor as soapish as J/C (where many stories have Chakotay crying in every. damn. chapter!)

There's one where "Endgame" never happened, and Voyager finds Seven's parents on a Borg cube. They rescue them, and Seven has to come to terms with whether or not to forgive the parents who, in turn, have to come to terms with their own guilt and that they remember their daughter as a little girl instead of an adult. The C/7 part of this story complements the action, instead of intruding.

As a viewer, I thought the relationship should have stayed Seven's holodeck experiment. I thought it was horrible. But the fanfic is actually quite good.

Well, thank you!


That wasn't my story you mentioned, but for the other C/7 writers, thanks!